UKC

B2 boots and mono points

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 Maximusf 16 May 2024

Are there any obvious issues with this setup. The only issues I can see are the flex of the boot shifting the mono point and maybe a lack of stability. Has anyone tried it?

 TobyA 16 May 2024
In reply to Maximusf:

Most obviously you'll need a monopoint crampon that has a basket fitting at the toe rather than a step-in toe bar. That means it will almost certainly be one of the modular design crampons that you can turn into a monopoint rather than the rarer "thoroughbred" monos. In recent years I've used these crampons https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/snow+ice/crampons/beast_lite_crampons_from_... in mono mode with these boots https://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2017/12/scarpa-zodiac-tech-gtx-revie... - for dry tooling at  Masson Lees Quarry with no issues so far. 

I guess you'll potentially be putting more stress on the crampon body with a softer boot but that's probably a longer term issue - although I have snapped the frame on a DMM Terminator after many years of use so don't totally discount it. Boot size probably has something to do with this, I wear 41.5s or 42s and find I can use B2 boots on technical ground with crampons (III to IV kind of range) without big issues. Editor Dan has ginormous feet and often says crampons feel bendy and unsupportive on steeper ground in B2 boots. I'm hardly a fly weight though, so I guess different B2 boots can be quite different in terms of their support.

 mutt 16 May 2024
In reply to Maximusf:

I've been using monopoints for the last 10 years and I'm not sure that it gives the best for the kind of winter climbing I do. I think they are designed for torquing in cracks but I don't do any of that. Perhaps b2s aren't very good in that situation? 

2
 wjcdean 16 May 2024
In reply to TobyA:

just to semi-unrelatedly agree with Toby on the boot size thing... I had to buy the flex bars for my petzl sarkens because my size 47 LS trango towers kept bending out of the toe basket. On paper they should be a good pairing, but alas.

 ebdon 16 May 2024
In reply to mutt:

I would disagree monos we're designed for torqueing in cracks. I think where they excell is standing on small edges where dual points have a tendency to unbalance the other, they are also great for precise placements in featured ice. I use monos for anything from II's to VI (allthough I do very little of the later nowadays) and I find the only time I wish I had dual points was steep cruddy snow where the monos just rip through. 

 TobyA 16 May 2024
In reply to wjcdean:

> I had to buy the flex bars for my petzl sarkens because my size 47 LS trango towers kept bending out of the toe basket. On paper they should be a good pairing, but alas.

Wow - OK! That does make the point. It's actually quite hard for me to get my head around how much a boot would have to bend for that to happen, but I do remember a friend having a fully step in crampon pop off her boot  - which obviously wasn't quite as stiff as she had been led to believe when getting them. But to come out of basket is a lot more movement! 

Has the bendy bar solved the problem?

 TobyA 16 May 2024
In reply to ebdon:

>  I find the only time I wish I had dual points was steep cruddy snow where the monos just rip through. 

Although I came to a conclusion that if a mono rips through dual points will generally rip through as well.

In recent years I've mostly used BD Snaggletooth with a horizontal mono. Looks weird but I've concluded they don't actually work that differently from normal front points on snow and ice and are better than them on rock.

 LucaC 16 May 2024
In reply to Maximusf:

B2s are designed for all round walking and winter mountaineering. Mono points are designed for higher end climbing. Here are the problems as I see them:

1. Bendy B2s aren't an ideal pair for stiff C3 climbing crampons. You might manage to leaver or twist the crampons off and at best the flex in the boot will make them feel insecure to climb in. 

2. A stiff B3 is much more relaxing to climb in as your foot isn't partly responsible for keeping its shape to stay in place. Standing on small holds with a mono point will tire your calves much quicker if your boots are flexing all over the place. 

3. Full step-in front rail crampons feel more secure and you can't have this with B2 boots.

4. B3 boots are warmer than B2 and designed for standing around to belay in. If you're going to be wearing monos it suggests you're climbing which will mean some amount of standing around. 

5. If you're not actually climbing then a pair of airtecs or G12 are a better all around crampon than a Dart or similar mono point. Easier to walk in and better for steep snow and easy ice. 

OP Maximusf 19 May 2024
In reply to LucaC:

I currently swap boots and crampons a bit, I swap between LS Nepal's and LS trango cubes I've only used the monos with the Nepal's atm. The crampon is a petzl lynx so not a full c3 crampon more a c2+. This all came about as I can't be bothered changing the various ancillary components from monos to duals and the basket to wire bail. Instead im only going to use the basket with the monos to save effort and time. I only envision crossing glaciers and mild ridges in the B2's and mono combo, I'll save the harder stuff for the B3's and mono combo. Hopefully this makes a little more sense now and clarifies that I won't be climbing anubis in my B2 mono combo. Thanks for the response.

Post edited at 20:03
 VictorM 20 May 2024
In reply to Maximusf:

Bear in mind that sonmething like the Lynx, with its vertical front points, might not be the most suitable tool for glacier travel - especially in soft snow. This will go doubly when set up as mono. 

 TobyA 20 May 2024
In reply to VictorM:

>  the Lynx, with its vertical front points, might not be the most suitable tool for glacier travel - especially in soft snow. This will go doubly when set up as mono. 

Why? To be honest, in soft snow, as long as you anti bots on your crampons, I don't think it really makes any difference what crampons you have. Even on hard snow or ice I don't see why it would make any difference. 

OP Maximusf 21 May 2024
In reply to VictorM:

I've had this thought and done some testing and they aren't as good as a g12 but they are acceptable and never let me down on either hard or soft snow. They do have there drawbacks in that middle ground though but I've never found it to be significant.

 VictorM 22 May 2024

To each their own I guess. The amount of time it takes me to switch out a front section is minimal so I'd personally take those five minutes to have the best tool for the job. 

If it works for you guys that's great

 CurlyStevo 23 May 2024
In reply to Maximusf:

Having owned quite a few different pairs of crampons here's my take on the last few pairs I owned, I'd generally choose a crampon for the trip / conditions. As a sub point I was on the heavy side typically weighing 90-95 kg or so. I mainly paired these with Freneys

Grivel Rambo IV - fully rigid mono with small secondary point. Definitely rip through on neve more frequently than G14 or mountaineering crampons, harder to climb homoegenous steep ice than true duals as its less stable. I think on aerated ice they can rip a bit more. Better on mixed or featured ice. Come in to their own at UK tech 5 and above. Considered too heavy now a days, they do stiffen up a bit of flex in a B3 boot though ( freneys defo flex a bit)

Grivel G14 dual with toe bail bar- Had to replace the toe bail bar with a different model to improve front point protrusion (compare with other similar crampons). For typical grade UK IV and below mountaineering crampons are on average better IMO. They do rip though a bit more than mountaineering crampons (G12 etc). Great on homogenous ice very stable. Too much hassle to keep changing between mono and dual, pick a fitting and stick to it IMO. Great for Euroice climbing under WI5 (can't comment on grades above that).

Mountaineering crampons G12 / BD Sabretooth. I'd pretty much always buy these with the basket as easier to put on and off and I think its a more bombproof fitting  that changes less overtime (with wear) when its right, I think in general its an underated fitting. G12 / G10 I'm not a massive fan of, I think the front point protrusion is too low on most larger boots. Sabretooths are much better in this regard. This style of crampon is by far the best crampon on snow / neve. Climb mixed pretty much as well as G14 in dual mode. Surprisingly good on ice too (given G14 etc are better). These type of crampons are the best all round crampon for grade IV and below in the UK and certainly can be pushed higher.

Post edited at 07:08

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