UKC

I'm going to buy the (possibly) final bits of kit for my trad rack and that will be investing in some cams.  I've heard good things about them and recently when speaking to a RCI he said if he was starting again he'd only buy Totems but is his opinion in the minority?

So basically, are Totems worth the extra cash or are cams from Wild Country, BD, DMM etc all very similar without enough of a difference that a new climber like me would benefit from the extra outlay for the Totems?

Thanks for your opinions folks.

I am not sure I would have them as my only cams, largely due to how they rack. I do like to place them however and always feel a little safer

They are good cams but I'm not sure I'd want them as my "core" cams or that I'd buy them as my first cams. Personally I only think the smaller sizes are worth it (black, blue and yellow), I think the benefit get less and less the larger the cams get. 

I really love Totems and placing them does always feel more solid, especially on my local limestone.

This being said they are bulky, the bigger ones can be quite floppy and I never seem to be able to place them in as large a variety of cracks as a similarly sized friend.

I think if these are the first cams you are buying I would go with friend/camalots/dragons and supplement with Totems when appropriate.

Take this with a pinch of salt, you would be fine with Totem's as first cams, although you would have to buy larger sizes in other cams.

They're really good for feeling solid in awkward placements and for having very narrow heads, which makes them fit in places where other cams won't go. But, apart from being expensive, they're less robust, apparently corrode faster than other cams if used often on sea cliffs, and you can't get them repaired as easily as, e.g. DMM cams.

Are you buying a whole set of cams, or just a few? If you're buying medium/large cams, I would go with DMM or similar. However, between black and purple, the Totems come in to their own IMO.

Totems are the mutz nutz and well worth it , I started off with black to purple and dragons 2-5 when I replaced my trusty quadcams. I ended up getting the full totem set cos I liked them so much and tend to place them in preference to the equivalent dragon.

They are awesome cams and i have climbed on them for the past 3 years as my go-to cam for small to medium sizes. From Green up I climb with Dragons.

I would add that all the other current Cam options really are unbelievably good compared to earlier cams. I started with 4CU's and they were crap compared to dragons. But for for the bulk of my climbing - lakes mountain trad - the totems ability to work in slightly weird placements and stay where i put them (they never seem to walk) has been well worth the extra cost. 

The one place I would maybe be cautious with suggesting them would be for someone who plans to go primarily sea-cliff climbing. There's a lot of small wires and stuff that makes them harder to clean than a normal cam. My gut says lots of places for salt to hide and do bad things. 

The smaller 3 sizes are absolutely vital in my opinion for protecting rotues with marginal small cam placements. I reckon id climb a whole E grade less slabs/ slighty bold routes if i didnt have them. Other small cams just dont seem as good. The black diamond z4 is probably my second choice. 

I hate falling, but ive fallen on both the smallest two (once in what i thought was a bad placement): both held fine. 

I love mine.  Got some Dragons and a bunch of totems.  If you climb on limestone a lot, my feeling is that they're better than most other cams in limestone. 

Kouba cams look very good value, until you can decide exactly what you need ...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/protection/kouba_axel_plus_and_fle...

A few people have mentioned that the smaller sizes of totem may be worth getting instead of the equivalent other sizes in a different brand and I would probably agree with this. I agree that roughly black to yellow or purple would be lovely to have, then green upwards in another brand. 

The main reason that they are better in the smaller sizes is the narrowness of the head. I have done a few routes where placing a standard double axle cam just doesn't go in the crack because of some constriction. The narrowness is also the main reason that other brands are often preferred in the larger sizes. In a vertical crack, the narrow head is more likely to walk (although people do say they don't walk much, see above).

My personal advice would be to buy a green, red and gold in WC, DMM or BD as cams are expensive kit and that's a good chunk of money already. Then decide later about the smaller ones. Purple is probably the next most useful size to get next and that can be when you make your decision about totems as your basic set in the lower sizes.

Thanks all, this has been REALLY helpful!

Based on the views that they come into their own in the smaller sizes more than the larger, I think I'll follow the advice of the black, blue annd yellow and possibly purple in Totems and another brand in the larger sizes.

@C Witter, I'm  not buying a full set.  I'd likely buy a max of 2-3 at a time or maybe even a single one at times.  I'll decide depending on what spare cash I've got come mid month.

So this then leads me to my next question.......... 

If I am only going to buy 2 or 3 cams at first then which sizes would people recommend I go for?

In regards to current gear, I've got a set of micro nuts, 'normal' sized set of nuts and a set of hexes, so would getting bigger cams be better at first or going down the route of smaller first?

If it depends on where I'm climbing then it's both in the Peak District (Stanage etc) and the Lakes equally and there'll definitely be weekend trips to snowdonia and days out on the Glyderau.

Thank guys, all the input is really helping.

Given your current set, that sounds fine for cragging, I’d start by out phasing the hexes and replace them with similar sizes cams. Start by replacing the larger ones. To me, totems size black to red outperform everything else. BD or DMM from green and up are nice.  BD even have huge ones for off with cracks. Metolius and Aliens are good in the very small sizes. 

It's worth noting that Totem Cams don't have cam stops. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if the cam walks into an open position and you whip, it'll break. 

I think the black, blue, yellow and purple sizes of Totem are excellent. However they wouldn't be my choice of first cam.

If I were recommending cams to someone just starting out I'd get Camalot C4s of DMM Dragons in .3, .5, 1 and 2.

This is basically half a set of cams. 

Absolutely rate totems over anything else! Just seem far better, just don't bother with the big orange

I reckon I've had totems longer than almost anyone in the UK. Bought blue through red back in 2013 before a yosmeite trip, black later. 

Many of my climbing partners have ended up buying black to yellow, some to purple to "augment" their C4/X4 standard rack. However, when it comes the crux it's often the totem that "saves the day". 

I've done multiple Hebrides trips, and bar needing a soapy clean and re'lube, no issues with corrosion. 

Early on I though they might suffer more from wear and tear as they "looked" a bit more ragged and battered, but 10 year son they're all still fully functional. 

I took a big whip once, on a yellow, than Smally thought shouldn't hold bodyweight and it saved my broken legs so I'm a total convert. 

Above purple, I'd say there's less benefit, but thst said, when you're on pockety, flared, or low friction rock I still feel that you're both more oikey to get it to fit AND it's going to have better holding power. 

Personally, as someone who often climbs with full double cams and some triples, racking doesn't bother me at all. I usually double clip my cams, second crab into first. 

So yes, back through yellow are, imo, indespensible, above that are more niche but still advantageous. 

A ode to the totem:http://scottishclimbers.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-clearences.html

They are a cut above the rest but you are getting into diminishing returns on the price differential. 

This is not to say that the other offerings are bad, far from it. For your first rack, I wouldn't bother those with less experience are more likely to get them stuck or fumble them into the sea, better to have a cheaper set where there will be fewer tears in loss.

As above re sizes. I have a full set of totems and don't have a problem with racking.

You'll often get a substantially better deal buying them all together so consider saving up the cash rather than buying individually.

My first cams were Friends, some rigid some flexi. I got 4CUs to replace them at the start of the noughties and used them until I got Dragons (and then Camalots) to review about 12 years ago. Very happy with the Dragons and the Camalots still, but although I sold on my 4CUs I always thought they were great - kept the size 1 actually, and still use it all the time. I know the advantages of the double axle cams, but also know the advantages of the 4CUs - light, rack well, cheap. What is it that made you think they were crap? I actually thought it was a shame that DMM didn't keep them in the range.

The black one is legendary as protection of last resort.  It really will fit where you think nothing will, when you most need it.  It's the Cam of Requirement when you need help most!

I’ve got a full set, excepting orange which, lacking a normal stem, is too wobbly. Brilliant cams, as others have said. Only minor negative is the need to extend. Green is the size of Millstone shot holes, fwiw. 
Also have smaller sizes of WC Zeros, they are excellent and have a bigger range than most other small cams. I have some larger WC friends. Still have some Dragons.

The DMM kit is very good, but beyond Totems,  I’d recommend looking at WC cams, they are top notch with extendable slings, unlike Black Diamond. Re-slinging WC cams is currently not straightforward, but whether your cams will be fit to re-sling in 10 years is an unknown anyway.

and the black alien is actually a bit smaller

I had the HB Quadcams which are actually still excellent even if antique!

Orange totem - always discounted this unit but used it a couple of times recently and I'm revising my opinion it, like the smaller sizes, just fits better

If I'm a bit gripped then there is a good chance I just need to have a look around for that Black Totem slot, because there is usually one. 

Assuming you climb with people that already have some cams which do you find yourself using most often on the rock types and grades you climb?

if first set of cams go DMM/WC/BD  then when youve  paid that little lot off, go Black to Purple pos green in Totems, ive found the Red and Orange "rattle" a bit.

I've got green and yellow totems and I place the green on pretty much every trad lead, it just seems to fit so many placements (gritstone). They handle really well and seem bomber with no fiddling about.

Nope.  I've climbed with people who have cams (as nearly everyone except me seems to have them), but I don't regularly climb with people who have them and when I have, I've not been leading so have had little practice in placing them.

It seems pretty difficult to find sets, either full or half, of Totems in this country.  In fact, even the sites that sell them seem to have fairly limited stock so I'd have to buy them from different outfits.  Obviously, I could get a set of larger cams in a oner to save a bit of cash so may well end up doing that.

100% Yes! The difference is huge. In the crux Eye of the tiger I tried every make of cam and it would rip out, the blue totem was bomber, the geometry is just genius. Now that I'm have a full rack I find all other cams inferior

Just done a route where the crucial gear was a shallow pocket that took a black totem (which I had to borrow). Camelots and WC too wide, however I didn't try a green alien (used to have one but it got stolen).

Love my Totems. Everyone would benefit from having at least the black one on their rack as it has a knack of being the only piece of gear you can place at really crucial time. The smallest from black through blue, yellow, purple are better than the alternatives, but once into the larger sizes I'm not sure there's a lot of difference.

That said, I have a full set of Totems and camalots, and if there's a really critical placement, I'll stick a totem in, there's something re-assuring about the lobe textures and camming pressure and way they don't tend to walk. 

I have Totems - love them - but the mythologising of the black as the 'only kit that fit' is a bit of a stretch. I have other microcams and in almost all cases I reckon they're interchangable. In fact, I recall a shallow placement in which the Totem wouldn't fit whereas a Dragonfly did. Maybe the Totem has a slightly longer head?

Slight tangent, sorry. I'd just get a set of 'normal' cams and double up with Totems later down the line (or when you start doing a lot of lime trad).

I bought a couple and tried them out before replacing my whole work rack. They’re a bit more fiddly and less robust than Dragons/C4s plus the lack of passive strength is a concern in certain placements. 
 

The alloy/mechanism seems far more susceptible to jamming up after sea cliff or winter climbing.

I think climbers find they can place totems in weirder places and they feel ‘OK’ to a tug so the assumption is they’re good to whip on. I doubt many are actually tested by actual falls so false confidence is built. 

I went for Dragons knowing I could get them reslung and they’re fairly cheap to replace if required. 
 

I have used nearly every major model of cam since the original solid stem friends hit the shops in late 1978. All modern cams from the major manufacturers are excellent. I currently use Totems as my main cams with Dragons as back-ups. I've owned Totems for more than 10 years, using mine on roughly 500 routes or perhaps 1000 pitches.

The wires look vulnerable but this doesn't seem to have been an issue for me however I'm a hobbyist not a guide and have not given them the hammering they might get from a professional user.

The only sign of wear is the slings are getting fuzzy. Totem have reassured me age alone is not a barrier to having them reslung so I will get this done at the end of the year. The majority of my trad. climbing is on sea cliffs and I've not yet had an issue with them seizing up. I give all my gear a quick rinse and a squirt of WD40 after using them by the sea.

I've aided on them in slippy Yosemite granite peg scars and taken decent lobs onto them in the kind of awkward limestone pockets that are hard to protect (memorably from the jug at the end of the Supersonic runout). I'm pretty sure my belief they stick better than the alternatives is more than wishful thinking. 

You do need to be aware of the lack of cam stops especially plugging them blindly into pockets or cracks that are deeper on the inside. 

Are they worth paying ~50% more than Dragons? Depends how much use you will get from them, how much you value 15%* better grip, and how much of your disposable income is allocated to climbing. 

*a made-up number obviously

You know, the Black Totem is the new Pink Tricam

Yes! 

See https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2020/08/02/deep-throat-and-a-monster-whipp... posted in previous "Totem repair" thread  

... especially black / blue / yellow... Cheers, Dom 

I climb with a set of totems and really rate them for all the reasons given in this thread. I was told they have a greater holding strength than other cams, particularly in slicker types of rock like limestone, but can't quickly find any studies to back this up. Does anyone know of any?

"better grip" - The same was always said about CCH Aliens.

Not specific to slick rock, or even relative to other cams beyond similar videos out there for Camalots etc, but this gives you some extra information: https://youtu.be/gywfr4HygTk?si=BerRSzHUcRMioqDH