UKC

Right, there's been a lot of talk about bolts. So let's get onto the other troll, chipping. I am now going to argue in favour of chipping, with the same arguments used for bolts. Okay, here goes:

We don't have nearly enough lower grade sport routes in this country. The demand is outstripping the supply and we need easier sport routes. I say, we chip the underused hard sport routes down to an amenable level.

1) If a route is only getting a couple of ascents a year, it's clearly unpopular and would get much more ascents if it was around 6a+ or something. There's plenty of terrible harder unstarred routes to go at, and maybe we don't have to bolt over those 3 star classics that those cantankerous trad climbers whinge about.

2) We're already drilling into the rock, how exactly is chipping any worse? The cliffs will one day weather the chips away so the chipping is only really semi-permanent. What is shaving a few grams off a wall compared to a motocross track? Explosives used now in quarrying?

3) Obviously we will start chipping in quarries, which are man made and look like shite anyway. Perhaps we could make some really cool routes out of blank faces.

4) We need to keep up with Europe in the sport climbing department but many are put off by the overly elitist and tough sport routes. Chipping could provide the lower grade routes as a leg up to more challenging climbs.

5) The actual 'environmental damage' is insignificant. Only climbers will actually notice the chips, they won't be seen at any distance. So I can't really see a reason why we wouldn't do this. We need more easier sport routes, why should our kids break their ankles on traditional climbs?

In reply to FreshSlate:

Chip the polish from chudleigh!

In reply to FreshSlate:

i think we need to make golf less elitist, more accessible and give a greater buzz.
then those who feel climbing isnt easy enough can make the transition.

In reply to FreshSlate:

A masterpiece of trolling / devil's advocacy / sarcasm - liking your work.

In reply to FreshSlate:

You wish, how on earth do you think they are the same arguments?

Oh, I forgot number 6!

6) If you don't like the chips you can just not use them

In reply to FreshSlate:

I like chips but I'm going off vinegar.

In reply to Jamie B:



Classic stuff

In reply to FreshSlate: Chipping, bolting routes, we have that in Europe already. It's called Via Ferrata.

In reply to winhill:

I think we should move this meta-argument to a different thread...

In reply to FreshSlate:

Too much effort all that. The answer is plastic holds. Bolt 'em to the rock face, so we'd have the indoors, out. Job sorted.

In reply to winhill:


Not exactly the same argument, but think about it thus:

Permanently altering/defacing an "under-climbed and under-used resource" so that more people can access it. Sound familiar?

In reply to FreshSlate:

I think it would be better to have dozens of pre drilled bolt placements but no hangers or holds. That way the leader could place them as required, a sort of trad sporty feel. Just need to carry some QDs and a selection of holds and bolts. Then you could build in progression by carrying smaller holds to bolt in place. If the placements were all over the place then each ascent would be infinitely variable. You could spend all day on one line. Guidebooks would be much slimmer as detailed route descriptions would be pointless.

If we did this with say 30% of venues across the country most folk would climb there and leave plenty of trad venues for me, which would be really quiet (even more so that they are already).

And don't forget the bouldering. Most of that stuff is way too hard!


It will come to this one day..............

In reply to FreshSlate:

I think fixed lines on routes would make things even more convenient. Faster ascents means less queues and people could get much more done in a day. Young people would be all the healthier for it, and we all know that more sexy young ladies in the hills can only be a good thing.

I can't think of any arguments against...

In reply to winhill: one is chipped holds, the other is chipped protection. They are both man made alterations to the rock to facilitate climbing

In reply to ice.solo:

Seconded. Wish you could persuade my local golf club, the elitist bastards called the cops when I dug the hole out on the first green to make it six feet wide.

It was hardly any bigger than the bloody ball, how the hell is a punter ever going to move on to the second tee? No wonder novices can't get into golf.

In reply to FreshSlate: " We don't have nearly enough lower grade sport routes in this country."

............so more people need to learn to place gear.


In what way do we 'NEED' to keep up to date with Europe in the sport climbing department?

In reply to earlsdonwhu: It's a brilliant way of staying strong and fit for climbing on rock, with rock millage included, which means it translates to trad climbing better than climbing indoors.

In reply to top cat:

So an indoor wall then?

In reply to LiamJC:

Not really, I think it is one up on that. However, you have a point there: walls would be sooo much better if we had to place the holds as we climbed! I'll suggest it to Ratho next time I'm there

In reply to FreshSlate:
A very good analogy! I know it's tongue in cheek but there are some serious points there. I shall have to remember this one next time someone argues in favour of retrobolting!

I would propose more than just chipping though. The problem with crags like Chee Dale is that the natural limestone is just too steep. So I would propose changing the angle of the rock - drilling, sledge hammering, dynamite, bulldozer, whatever is necessary... Who needs all those grade 8 sport routes anyway? I'd be amazed if I can ever climb 8a, so I'd keep a few of the better ones just in case (chip away any polish though) and rectify all the other ones to reduce them to a level that most people can manage or at least vaguely aspire to.

That's democracy in action in today's consumer society, I want it now and I want it delivered on plate, otherwise I will throw my iPhone out of my city centre flat!

In reply to earlsdonwhu:


We don't but we do need the extra tourist revenue that will come in from attracting the Europeans to our revitalised sport crags. Sport climbing 5s and 6s in Chee Dale in the rain, c'est magnifique, Monsieur!

In reply to SteveoS:

In reply to abseil:

In all seriousness, Chudleigh is so hilariously polished on the easy routes that they have been far, far, far, far, FAR more damaged by that than if someone drilled some bolts. Perhaps 'abseil' has the answer? Just hose down the easy routes with vinegar (or another suitable weak acid), and hopefully the routes will be restored to their original grippy, glory :P

I was doing Eeny, Meeny, Miney, Mo the other day and it wasn't just the handholds and footholds that were polished; even the vertical blank bits were shiny :P

In reply to andrewmcleod:

I've only done one route at Chudleigh - The inkerman groove - and felt so muchmore secure when I moved off the shared section of Wogs at VD and onto the VS climbing. I thought I was going to fall off a really rather large ledge on Wogs due to the polish. Hose it down and wait for it to freeze for a less slippy surface!

In reply to FreshSlate:

Liking your work. Extra apreciation points for the "think of the children" line at the end.

In reply to andrewmcleod:

So if Chudleigh has been bolted the routes would have been less popular and would never have become polished?


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I'm sure, as you imply, that if Chudleigh had been bolted then as it would have the ONLY easy sport routes close to Exeter (discounting the North Face out due to complicated access) then they would have been even more popular and become polished more quickly. Presumably roughly the same number of people would have been able to enjoy the routes, just over a smaller period of time? It can't really get any worse now :P

Just saying that all those climbers (including me) have largely destroyed those climbs; there is not a single hold that isn't radically different to what the first ascender climbed. So the original climb is gone, and is never coming back. Just saying that, in the long run, ALL climbing is destructive, and potentially a lot more so than a few bolts :P

Although I imagine that most people who do the four Diffs are either soloing (warmup) or top-roping (novice)?

In reply to top cat:

We have the 'bolt on boulder' at the Cuttings boulder field on Portland

http://www.lucycreamer.com/download/pictures/Bouldering_and_soloing/Pulling...

In reply to FreshSlate:

yeah, and send someone off to kilnsey to scratch up the foot-holds on the directissima. or perhaps cover them in pof and start selling it at the bottom...

Lets use the old quarries as motocross tracks.

In reply to FreshSlate: I flashed the women's World cup semi-final route chipped at Arco in about 1990, before comps were forced indoors and thank god they were. I still feel ashamed really it was a crap route.

In reply to winhill:

Course it's the same argument! And very and humorously and well put too.

Just bolt some holds on to your bridge and away you go.

In reply to jcharles:

This has been done, I saw a photo...