UKC

Two weeks ago I scrambled up An Stac as part of a wonderfully long scrambling day on the ridge. I was guided. It was, for me, the best thing that day. This was the beginning of my preparation to do the traverse.

I went back again the following weekend to try to replicate on my own to render things to long term memory. When I looked at it this time, I lost my bottle: "what if I get confused and lost and stuck?". Went up the horrible scree and put a downer on a wonderful day.

I have been looking in my books and there is very little other than, follow the line of weakness. That is fine with me when I am not alone, but alone things grow legs and I would like a little more detail if anyone can help. Thanks. 

An Stac looks much, much harder than it is when you're stood at the bealach below, so no shame for losing your bottle. It's very intimidating.

Rather than try to write a full verbal description here, because it's pretty long, I'd suggest having a look at the Cicerone or SMC guidebooks (or getting someone to send you a photo of the relevant pages).

Skye Scrambles? I have Tom Prentice's book and also Adrian Trendall 's and it might be me but they seem so vague.

I can't help with An Stac particularly but can offer some general scrambling/climbing advice. It sounds like you're lacking confidence and/or experience - you've proved that you can do the route but aren't at the stage where you can tackle it on your own. Perhaps you'd gain more from trying easier and more obvious scrambles to build up experience. The company of others is another obvious help. Having a backlog of routes under your belt is a big step on the way.

Thanks, maybe you are right... I have only done Sgurr Dubh Mor, Sgurr Alasdair (as part of Sgurr Sgumain to Sgurr A Ghreadaidh round, but met up folk along the way and wasn't totally solo then), am Basteir and an Teallach on my own. Maybe something else, but can't 100% remember. 

Nuria, I have the Skye Cuillin guide and the description says - it starts by a groove 5m left of the crest, passes two scree filled rifts before taking a fine narrow rib directly. No further information.

It is one of the best parts of the ridge and so definitely one to get clear in your mind. I’d say similar about the three tops of Bidein Druim nan Ramh, exciting and complex, and worth a practice if you haven’t already.

Good luck, Jason

Thank you Jason, 

I am trying to render this one section to memory (day 1) before tackling Bidein. I have heard it is complex to navigate ; but I am looking forward to the day. 

Oh ok, I have neither to hand but in my mind those are both of those books are generally very detailed.

From memory then...from the bealach, take an obvious, slightly left-slanting fault to the left of the steep crest for about 30m to easy ground. Ramble up the easy ground, still left of the crest, and up an open scree gully towards the crest. Before reaching it, move up quite steeply left on big holds into a dyke (can't recall the exact detail of this part). Continue up some more easy loose ground to where a steeper wall cuts diagonally up rightwards. Ascend this and so gain the crest. Now follow the crest rib, sustained and exposed but never too difficult, for about 60m to a short chimney with blocks at the top. Go up this and continue trending rightwards up the obvious continuation fault. There are two finishes - either traverse hard left, exposed but not difficult, to come around on the south side of the summit, or continue in the same line as before up a dwindling ramp above the  very steep north wall of the peak, making a final exposed steep pull to gain easy ground and a good view of the In Pin.

A great book and superb resource, not just for this thread but in general. Don't think it includes An Stac, but it's such a great resource I think it deserves mention anyway, if you enjoyed An Stac just wait until you feast your eyes on some routes described in this 

https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scotlands-mountain-ridges

Thank you. This is what I was hoping for. So helpful, Andy! 

You've certainly done far more up there than I have. I've only been up near the In Pin and was an E3 climber back then and it put a very healthy respect for the exposure into me! The last time I scrambled up a Munro 12 years ago was on the north ridge of Ben Hope and I backed off for the easier option. It was much harder than expected, very exposed and the consequences of failure definitely terminal. Knowing your limits is a useful survival skill!

Interestingly, Lankyman, I thrived with the exposure (in company). Last week it took me a while to remember the rout up Sgurr Alasdair and started on the Laggan side. It was clear that that was much more complex than what I had done. It was not a scramble and found myself soloing the west side. Came across a sling from someone who had clearly abseiled. Eventually I turned back. It must have played iny head all day. The week before I had soloed the In Pinn and it didn't feel like that big a deal. This time, I also did not go up it. I guess doing this ony own is the next step for me. Sometimes hard to do that. 

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏

Sounds like a good call to abort.  It is exactly that kind of ridge that could be tricky and scary if you inadvertently wander off the easiest line.  Which is just a vague "feel your way" kind of thing for the first 75%.

I always do that sort of thing first with a partner and a rope -- just in case.  Once you know the route, then you can venture up solo with no backup other than down climbing.

I have never used a guide, but suggest that it is very different to going by yourself with a friend.  I've climbed with people who used guides for most stuff, and those friends weren't very confident without the guide  -- despite them believing they were better.  I think with a guide you sign over emotional ownership of the trip, so it all feels easier at the time than if the guide wasn't there.

So I suggest you go back sometime with a rope, a few slings and nuts, and a good equal or better companion.  Not a guide.  Then work out if you want to do that kind of stuff solo.

Having said that, you have to get quite high up on An Stac before you can easily use the rope, because the lower section is "facey" and hasn't got many good solid cracks or spikes for protection.  Higher there is more.

Thank you Bruce. What an excellent advice. Not so easy to find the partner, sadly. 

Hi Nuria, as others said it does look very intimidating below. We were there a few weeks ago for the first time in ages and I couldn't quite remember the line but once on it it's fairly obvious. It doesn't get the traffic some of the other scrambles get but there's enough wear to guide you along.

Its one of my favourite parts of the ridge and not really any looser than any other bits.

What day did you try it? We spoke to a girl on her own on  Sgurr Mhic Choinnich on the 3rd.

As an instructor who guides and teaches scrambling and mountaineering regularly I totally agree that sometimes guests hand over their 'emotional ownership' (great phrase by the way). That's what they're paying for after all.

I try and make an effort for everyone to buy in to the plan and take some ownership of it, encourage decision making and get customers to read the guidebook, help find the way etc. Obviously this isn't always possible and different objectives require different approaches.

I remember An Stac looking quite intimidating from below but ultimately quite steady, but it's years since I was last on it. There's already some good advice for building confidence scrambling but I think the best thing is almost always exposure to a greater amount of it.

The more scrambles you do, be that solo, guided, instructed or with peers, the more confident you will feel that you are able to find a sensible way up the route, interpret the guidebook, move well on the rock and enjoy the experience. If you're going solo, start with easier, obvious objectives or those which you've done before and felt comfortable on and build it up from there. Your comfort zone needs to be expanded incrementally and going too far, too soon, will have negative impacts on your confidence.

That was Saturday. You can hardly consider me a girl anymore, I'm afraid, so wouldn't be me 😂. On Mhic Choinnich, I was walking with another soloist... 

Thank you Luca. The emotional aspect is definitely always the harder for me. 

Thank you all for your suggestions and help. I thought in case you bothered looking at this post again: I went back yesterday with a new mindset and I was in flow. An Stac, tick, I Pinn, tick. I was alone... Alone alone: no one on An Stac and no one at the In Pinn. 

Did you reverse the IP? 

That’s great. Well done. 

Nice one, lovely photos. An Stac was probably my favourite scramble in the whole ridge. It just goes on and on.

Isn’t An Stac just wonderful if you stick to the crest, the right-hand edge? Small holds on perfect rock with massive exposure. Has to be one of the highest quality sections of scrambling in the UK. Followed by the even more exposed east ridge of the In Pin on big shiny jugs.

Totally, Juan! 

Absolutely exhilarating. Can't wait to do it again😂

Reverse? You mean downclimb? I abseiled. Or did I misunderstand your question? 

one of the guidebooks years ago called it "disgustingly loose".

When I did it in the end, in nice dry conditions, I thought it a really great adventure as you couldn't see how you'd get to the top.  It looked daunting but as you reached each point the route revealed its secrets just enough for the next bit. Quite airy and balancy but exquisite at times - a real alpine feeling adventure - I'd now never willingly miss it out of a circuit of Coire Lagan.

The bypass routes are disgusting!

Agreed. 

Agree with everyone. I remember An Stac getting bad press in the guidebooks, then I did it for the first time and 'whoaaa, that was good!'. A real highlight of the ridge, taken with the InPinn continuation.

Same with South Buttress An Caisteal. Just after you start, you climb down around a big basalt dyke to get onto the buttress. Guidebooks have really panned it, but I found it really impressive.

One last one. I did Central Tuppenny Buttress a few weeks ago which was good, perfect gabbro at just an angle you could almost walk up it with hands for occasional stability. Straight afterward I did North Gully - no stars, not recorded in summer - and found good quality scrambling on good rock with interesting character up short crux pitches, with a lot more to it than the preceding three star buttress.

I guess what I am getting at, is that with so many styles of climbing at play in the Cuillin there is huge scope to discover quality, even well off the beaten track, and sometimes in places you wouldn't expect or realise. A great mountain range.

South Buttress on An Caisteal is certainly impressive. Credit to you if you descended round that basalt dyke, it looked horrendous and I backed off both it and the huge detached pinnacle on the direct start (once had a conversation with Robin Campbell about it and he'd done the same). I got onto it higher up and really enjoyed the rest of it. You've obviously got cojones! 

Always really enjoyed An Stac, first did it in the 70's and thought it nowhere near as loose as its reputation.

Completely agree with your last statement, you're never going to run out of places to explore in the Cuillin🙂

I meant reversed