UKC

Ok folks, we did this last year and the time has come for a re-check now the new season is starting.
I noticed how everybody was carefully on Diet Coke, eating low cal mixed grills and refusing to eat the various puddings on offer at the Portland Picnic, but maybe you dont need to worry, do your BMI, you know it makes sense, If you are ok you can pig out and get pissed with a clear concience.

Work out your height in mts (mine is 1.72) multiply it by itself (2.96), get your weight in kg (66.00). Divide the weight by the height squared (66.00/2.96 = 22.3) So my BMI is 22.3 :-o) (smug smile).

Here is the insurers table of risk factor allied to BMI

BMI-----Classification ------ Risk of Disease due to Obesity

Less than 20-----Underweight-----Low (risk of other problems)
20-25-----Healthy weight-----Average
25-30-----Overweight------Increased
30-35-----Obese(class1)-----Moderate
35-40-----Obese(class2)-----Severe
Over 40----Severely O/W-----Very Severe

In reply to Al Evans:

Nice and simple but I don't think it's that accurate.

The problem is that doing a BMI tells you nothing about where the weight comes from, whether it's fat or muscle.

Body builders can have a high BMI but they're not obese. As we know, muscle is heavier than fat, but is more useful at getting you up things.

In reply to innes: Spoilsport

In reply to Al Evans: I dont think that you can go by the BMI i an 6/2 ft 12 1/2 stone that mean tall and thin i have no fat and a slim muscular body. That meens that i dont carry ant excess body weight at all. Muscle weighs more than fat but a body with too much muscle will count against you as fat is lighter than tissue.

In reply to Al Evans: Mines 23 im happy with that.

In reply to kevin watkins: Hey! someone who is over 6ft who climbs too! I am 6ft 4" and i was annoyed because a teacher at school (even though he knows Sweet FA about climbing) told me that you have to be small to climb { He is talking rubbish right?
Mark.

In reply to Mark (Yanosh) Muir:

He's talking toss.

In reply to innes: Thanks I was very much hoping that was the case. I realy enjoy climbing and wish I found out about it sooner!

In reply to Mark (Yanosh) Muir: Its great i just stand on mt toes and the dyno that has pissed everybody else of is only a finger tip away...

In reply to Al Evans:

I thought that the current evidence was that being very light was actually better for your long term health, provided that there isn't a problem such as anorexia or other illness that is causing the low weight? ie If you eat properly being skinny is good for you.

In reply to innes:

Thanks Innes, I have just discovered that I am a bodybuilder! All the wobbly bits are just muscles waiting to be discovered!

In reply to francoise: And your BMI is?

In reply to Al Evans:
6 foot, 10 1/2 stone - BMI of 20.007 so just into healthy. Anyone lower?

In reply to Al Evans: I sneaked in at 24.85. I am pleased with that, I thought I was a porker!
Still, I almost did my first 7c at the weekend..almost!! 3 weeks in Spain should see me with the fitness to bag it, I am off in 4 days, nice.

In reply to Matt:

6 ft and used to be 10 1/4 stone for many years. Now 11 1/4 (age catching up with me) But I look healthier.

In reply to Al Evans:

I recently had a body composition test done, using some electrical gismo. I was measured at 6'2", 13st 3 dressed and my body fat was measured and assessed as being right at the bottom of the healthy range.

I've since lost a couple of pounds and there is no obvious fat on my body.

At 12st 12, now my BMI is 23.

Yet, according to the BMI figures, I can still afford to lose the best part of two stones and still be healthy.

Unlikely.

In reply to Al Evans:
My BMI=32, perhaps I shouldn't even be on this site!

In reply to Matt: 6.1 & 68kg. Same BMI as you. But my weight does fluctuate a bit. Went for a check up a while back and the nurses told me I better put some weight on!

In reply to Matt:
6 foot, 10 1/2 stone - BMI of 20.007 so just into healthy. Anyone lower?

Yup.... BMI of roughly 18.5 Still healthy, and had somebody measure my actual body fat once, and was told it was fine. Did actually drop to a BMI of 17.5 after a climbing holiday though, which probably wasn't a good idea....

In reply to Al Evans:

This system would probably make every member of the England rugby team a fat bastard . Who's going to tell them ???

In reply to Marita:
But the research on other animals shows that mice kept really skinny have glossy coats and are generally healthier whilst their properly fed counterparts are decrepit and aged.

I'm not suggesting people should half-starve themselves to be healthy, but I don't think people who are naturally skinny should worry about it, it's likely a good state to be in.

In reply to gingerkate:

animal research is a tad unreliable though.... but I agree.. no need to worry as long as you feel good

In reply to Marita:

This is true. There are some people who've taken it so seriously they've gone ultra-skinny (whilst being very careful to eat well) in an effort to live longer. But reading the figures I'd have to lose about a stone to be as thin as they reckon you need to be. And I'm already fairly lean, so I think I'd look scrawny if I lost that much. So....... stuff it...........

In reply to gingerkate: Geraldine eats like a horse (you know carrots, hay, its a bugger getting the nosebag off her) but she still manages to keep really thin despite once being a porker.
She is not veggy and eats meat and fish (and likes her pint), but just huge amounts of fruit and vegetables too. I dont know where she puts it, it took me ages to make her realise I couldnt eat that amount of food at one go.

In reply to Matt:

I only get a 16! However, I've been perfectly healthy for years. Also, I recently registered with a new doctor who did the BMI thing on me and said I was fine.

In reply to Al Evans:
As has already been said, this simple ratio seems far too simplistic a measure. Its designed to help insurance companies who work on the basis of statistical averages, but that doesn't mean that a specific individual will necessarily have problems or even be at risk if they fall outside the average band. There are so many other factors to take into account for any individual.

Having said that, I can be smug as my current BMI according to this measure is 20.4. Lowest ever would have been 19 and highest ever 20.9. So even a scrawny runt with no biceps can manage to drag himself up a rock face!

In reply to Marita: hmm, i seem come in at 16.95...that would suggest i'm rather underweight...have to say though that i feel healthy. i suspect that bmi is rather a crude measure of the state of things...apart from being a store in case of illness i don't really see what use fat is in a modern society - not that much risk of famine in the uk...

In reply to Sophie Leatherbarrow:
You look really well (and not at all scrawny!). Happen you'll be one of these seventy+ year olds soloing E2 in another 50 years..........

Al, I reckon some people have speedier systems than others. You know they always say it takes 24 hours (or something like) for food to travel through you......... that doesn't fit with my experience, at all. (Maybe it depends what you eat???). If some people have speedier systems maybe they extract less calories as it whizzes through?

Does anyone *know*? I'm just speculating.

In reply to gingerkate: do you use marker dye or something to check progress??

seriously...there is a known condition condition where peeps don't absorb as much fat from food as they should/could...sounds like the ideal climber's food 'problem'! Makes your turds float in the loo because they contain more fat than they perhaps should...

In reply to Tobs:

Why is body fat important?
The primary purpose of body fat is the storage of energy to be used by muscles. Subcutaneous fat (under the skin) also helps provide warmth and protection for our bodies. Internal fat helps support and provide protection for the spinal cord, hear and vital organs. Body fat is also crucial in the utilization of vitamins A, D, E, and K by the body (these vitamins are fat soluble). In short, you wouldn’t be able to survive without some body fat. The real problem isn’t body fat, it’s excess body fat.

(from http://www.accumeasurefitness.com/faq.html )

In reply to Ian Hill:

I thought they just floated when you eat lots of roughage and so they have more air in them? and eating lots of roughage makes it all move through your system quicker, as does exercise, which would also both make you thinner?

In reply to Al Evans: Hey! I've just done mine for the first time since my latest weight loss campaign, and I've slipped below 25 for the first time in yonks! (Only 0.01 below, but it's still below!). Underweight here we come!

In reply to Ian Hill:

Curry certainly doesn't take a day to remind me I ate it........

Sophie, I've just been playing around with the BMI figures. They may mean something for average height people, but they're pants for the petite......... you can tell by comapring them with the BMIs for children. A 50th centile 13 year old child (ie average height/weight) has a BMI of around 17/18. Now I'm not much taller than that, (I know because I sometimes buy kids' jeans), so why would you expect me to be heavier........ yes, people generally put on weight as they age, but that's just a norm, not necessarily a good thing, prob the reverse. So......... I reckon BMI is a silly measure if you are small.

In reply to tobym in work: I came in at 28.14. Hmmmm makes you wonder!

In reply to Al Evans:

The problem with all this is apparent in winter. Being a skinny wretch, I carry an extra kilo of warm clothing up the hill. And probably about two kilos of damp clothing back down the hill. My pie-munching pal has all his insulation built in. Who has the last laugh!

In reply to Al Evans:

An ideal climber would be infinitely tall and weigh nothing, so the ideal weight to height ratio would be zero

Doug

In reply to Al Evans: I didnt think they still use this system for insurers now,

this says that anyone who plays rugby / football etc, is probably overweight, i play a lot of rugby, 6 ft, 14 st, always one of the smallest skinniest on the pitch yet according to this i think im just over 25, overweight, a ball sportsman with have a high mass on their legs, which adds considerably to weight, meaning we were considered higher insurance risk yet being of aerobically, physically fit, more so than most none sports plkayers who fall in the healthy zone.

In reply to Al Evans:

I'm a lardy 24.7, but I need *something* to puff out all my wrinkles - how else do you think I maintain my youthful looks?!


Liar, liar, pants on fire - I've never seen tiramisu shovelled down so quickly by so many, even those who'd already had seconds for pudding!

In reply to Al Evans: 20.3 <preen>. I'm 11% fat.

In reply to kevin watkins: You certainly do have some fat - unless you can see every muscle perfectly, you're at least 10% fat.

In reply to gingerkate: You might be looking at it the wrong way round. People who are naturally active tend to be skinny. Dieting may reduce your bodyweight, but doesn't in itself make you healthy.

In reply to Andrew McLellan: my fat percentage is about 6 percent at the look had it done down the gym.

In reply to Andrew McLellan:
Not with these mice. The skinny ones weren't given more exercise, they were just half-starved. And it isn't just mice, it works with every species they've tried it on, at least that's what I have read. But am still not prepared to be a stone lighter just to live longer. (Though when I'm seventy I'll likely be pissed off with my earlier self for not doing so, just like my current self wishes my twenty year old self had used more sun cream..........)

In reply to Al Evans:

23.7 apparently.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:
They do according to the Independent On Sunday business section.

In reply to Al Evans: I dont even wont to work out my BMI at 14st7 and 6 foot On a bright note im less than 15% body fat and could kick sand in most faces at the beach!! On a serious note how does heavy weight climbers technique vary from lighter climbers. Anyone now how heavy JD was?

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

5'8" 190lbs no fat,very fit, BMI 26.5...... should i give up climbing now

In reply to Al Evans:


Hmmmm... so even if you're underweight, you still have a risk, albeit "low", of disease due to obesity.... very interesting!

At least those of us with a "healthy weight" only have an average risk......

In reply to Ian Hill: We once had that stuff that expels fat in food from your body on the show by inhibiting its take up, is it called Xenacol, anyway by nature of an experiment I took some, its bloody amazing, great lumps of undigested fat floating on the water in the bog bowl. Never got hold of any since but it works amazingly well.

In reply to Al Evans:

Another wonderful day at Portland in my Rubens figure! My daughter very helpfully shouts at me "suck it in" as I in the middle of putting a rope up a route (made the mistake of climbing in a sunbathing outfit). I had to give the kids a lesson of history of arts and remind them that white fat ladies like their mum were very appreciated by artists of all age, but not white fatty men!

In reply to francoise: Ah! The Rubenesque form, not fat but sculptured generously. Not sure its the right build for the Walker though? Seriously what did you get up to? Weather was great wasnt it?

In reply to Al Evans:

It was fabulous. We did the little climbs of the fallen slabs (the arete, the slab and the biceps one). Mummy has flab and biceps!! That's all for one day . But with a 10 year old you have to take it easy and also explore the boulders and look for seashells etc...in the pools of water. I think I am becoming an addict of Portland. I am hoping to go back this Sunday.

I think this BMI measurement thing means nothing.
I'm 6ft and about 150lbs.
My BMI is around 20 and I eat nothing but Bakewell tarts and junk food.
None the less I'm fit, healthy and enjoying my climbing.

Does BMI mean anything?

In reply to francoise: That means you led a steep 4+ outside with only your kids belaying you. Welcome to the comeback trail Francoise

In reply to Al Evans:

Thank you. You are so good for my ego!

Hmmm. According to this my BMI is 18.

I'm not particularly tall and I feel healthy enough, although I do tend to catch colds and things pretty easily.

Perhaps the 'other problems' is something to do with that?

I read somewhere that after a while at a very low body weight your immune system will start to suffer...

Maybe I need to start hitting the cream buns?

In reply to Al Evans:
height 6'1" = 1.85 m =3.4225
i used to weigh 9 stone
BMI 16

however following smoked salmon and buttery scrambled egg breakfasts, bacon and sausage butties, swiging champers at the crag and Tiramisu for breakfast lunch and supper.
weight 12 stone = 76 kg

BMI 22

In reply to gingerkate:

its not the being skinny its the diet that gets you skinny high fruit and veg content lots of anti-oxidants little animal and fried/browned foods products packed with free-radicals.

It is thought your body goes into survival mode and hence has to ling as long as possible to ensure survival, When times are good and everyone is fat and "healthy" the reproduction rate goes up to compensate for the increaesd mortality.

In reply to francoise: Did you go swimming again?

In reply to Al Evans:

Who were these people? I didn't see them!!

I came out as BMI=17. Obviously I need more muscle!

In reply to helen taylor:

For anyone that's interested, Bruce Lee's BMI was 18.31* when he filmed Enter the Dragon (at his peak).

* 5' 7.5"; 125lbs (please correct me if I'm calculating incorrectly).

Helps me as far as determining which end of the wedge I'd like to aim for.

In reply to onefivenine:
Yeah but Bruce Lee couldn't climb for toffee.

In reply to Billy De Kid:

I used to have a mate who trained obsessively in martial arts. He never climbed, but he could do one arm pull ups the bastard. I don't think he even knew he could do them until he tried.

In reply to innes:Some recent stuff on caloric restriction!

What is Caloric Restriction?
.
The most documented method for increasing lifespan in animals is through caloric restriction (CR). Scientists have known for decades that if they cut out a third of the normal diet (caloric content) fed to rats, worms, yeast and other organisms, the animals live longer. More recent studies with primates are demonstrating effects similar to those found with rodents

This method has not been reliably tested in humans, and besides, few among us want to live in a constant state of hunger. What then, is the significance of this research? What promise does it hold for those of us who want to do the right things to live a long, healthy, active life?

The overall effect of caloric restriction is to redirect the cell from non-essential activities and focus it on those most important for maximum health and longevity. Let's look first at what happens at the cellular level under CR. The information obtained from intense study at many different labs demonstrates that CR increases the efficiency of energy production and reduces blood pressure, triglycerides levels, blood glucose levels, and body temperature. The animals on restricted diet also appear to have fewer chronic diseases, and their cellular proteins and DNA show less damage caused by free radicals. CR also decreases insulin levels and increases insulin sensitivity, two important indicators of a healthy, non-diabetic physical state.

In an environment of food scarcity, cells appear to go into a self-preservation state involving the production of substances to protect structures vital for cell survival. The net effect is an efficient machine that produces a minimum of toxic substances (free radicals) and is protected from attack by toxic metabolites. The overall effect of caloric restriction is to redirect the cell from non-essential activities and focus it on those most important for maximum health and longevity.

In reply to Al Evans:

Can you please provide some references?

In reply to Al Evans: well al, i am 164 and weigh 65kg, no fat. So where do i come(sorry but too lazy to work out the maths!)

In reply to Al Evans: I was underweight before christmas, now I am considered healthy due to booze and chocolate.

In reply to Al Evans:

Anyone got any idea what John Dunne's is/was?

I'm guessing 5'10", 180 lb? That's 25.8.

Or Thom Willenberg? Obviously very low fat levels, but tall and very muscular. And makes 8b+ look easy.

In reply to Al Evans:
BMI´s of some famous climbers:
Alex Huber: 25,56. Silvo Karo: 25,81.
-> According to the BMI scale, they are too heavy...
So we can see that BMI doesn´t really make any sense without some information about fat percentage...

In reply to Removed UserH R: How do you know those facts?