UKC

Please stop.

Thankyou.

But what if I am a knight, sworn to the quest?

Holy Grails and so on are ok. Sorry, I should have said.

How about a spirit quest? Acceptable or nay? Does it depend on the ayahuasca situation?

When does a quest become a send (or vice versa)?

Acceptable. 

What about A Tribe Called Quest? 

What about researching the inner workings of charged particles? - I do hope questions are ok

Is this allowable under specific circumstances?

Asking for a tick.

What would you prefer?

Questin', surely? Nothing like a bit of questin'.

Been questin' today?"

"Oh, yes, thank you. Always am questing, you know. After the Questing Beast."

Are you Siward the Quester?

What's wrong with a "questing out around the arete" or a route being described as "a bit questy"? I feel a lot of affection for the specific nuances given to words in esoteric language communities, such as among climbers. It creates a sense of shared humour, culture and belonging, no?

Quest-ionable

QuestFester would be a good user name

I was almost tempted to do a bit of questing today, but had the good sense to stop…

Good decision

Climbing.

Any non-climbing usage is fine for all I care.

I really, really hope you are joking with respect to this case.

Hahahaha. I'm sorry, but I'm going to use it determinedly now, like the time a friend called a steep crag "weapon" or the particularly idiosyncratic use of "interesting" amongst certain climbing friends. I sometimes (I admit, I am a little ashamed of this) even use "psyched". But, every time I use "questy" (this week, anyway) I will think of you.

Okay, you may have a point; in neither case does there appear to be any sense of having to explore, or difficulty finding the route (where the use of 'questing' might be less questionable). Unless Tom is on a righteous quest to find and kill the chalk monster who went up the route previously...

Surely it sounds extremely weird to most English people’s ears to hear the word quest used as an intransitive verb. Presumably this a very recent invention.

It doesn't and it isn't.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/quest

I'll keep questing where it's appropriate. Probably not on a well-chalked straight line crack, but I certainly did some questing over the weekend. If you don't like words being used to mean their recognised meaning that's nobody else's problem.

You can't just vaguely quest.

If you were questing after holds or for a belay it would be acceptable.

The current fad is horrible and I hope it dies out sooner rather than later.

Would 'cwest' be ok, along with various derivatives? The 'Cwesta di Santa Catewina' on Monte Wosa, maybe - and the famous [wenowned, even] Cwesta Wun at St Mowitz.

Nothing wrong with questing, as long as you're questing on something that's actually questy.

See 'having an epic', which diminuendos all the way from crawling off Nanga Parbat in a storm to getting a bit of gear stuck at Burbage.

The invention of the word "questy" takes the matter to a whole new level of offensiveness.

Well we obviously need an adjective to describe something with the character of a quest, what do you propose?

Questful? Questacious?

That surely pales alongside the elevation of diminuendo to verb status - although maybe there's the hint of a gerund in there.

First definition of quest I arrived at on the internet was:

a long or arduous search for something

If that doesn't sum up the authentic onsight trad experience, I don't know what does. I think you're being a bit old and grumpy here, Robert.

You've got the postage dude, now hike down the the post office and send it. 

No, just irritation and alienation.

And what is this silly new thing for putting "no" after a comma at the end of a sentence. That needs to stop too.

This usage is in line with traditional understatement. In contrast "questing" comes across as pompous and pretentious.

Lord of the rings (n8+)

Lord of the Rings (31)

Lord of the Rings (22)

Lord of the Rings (E4 5c)

The Lord of the Rings (E2 5c)

Lord of the rings (7a)

It's the lazy way of saying 'I think you'll agree?' and actually means 'you'd have to be a complete @rse to even consider having a different opinion to me '. No?

You can. Right there in the example in the link I posted:

"quest
verb [ I ]
to spend a long time searching for something that is difficult to find, or to spend a long time trying to achieve something difficult:

His eyes moved across the crowd, searching, questing."

Could just as easily be "he moved on upwards, searching, questing".

It's correct use of language. You're going to have to live with this one.

For what?

No, a quest needs to be for something specific. It is this idea of vaguely "questing" that feels so wrong, especially when just being used lazily and pompously.

Diminuendo is a totes legit verb, bro.

Has the aussie question intonation evolved into writing now? If so that needs to be stopped.

You might have made that up. Dictionary says it doesn't. Unlucky. 

Exactly -- many answers to that one. 

Sometimes I find myself questing for a quest.

"Walk" please. FFS.

I would say that (at least here) it's a knowing and cheeky way of proddling someone who is being cantankerous and who you know is likely to disagree.

Thanks for initiating this fascinating linguistic debate. It's been the best craic on UKC for at least a year.

I bet your poetry wins loads of awards.

Do you need to know what you're looking for to search for it? I think quests can apply the agile methodology...

Well I'd like to see an example of this last usage. I don't think I ever have. And I'm sure all this climbing usage isn't about spending ages trying to achieve something difficult; if it is trying to mean anything (which it usually doesn't) it seems to be simply about setting off into the unknown which has got nothing to do with any quest for anything.

On balance I think I might prefer to die.

It's all so awful and dispiriting.

There's only one person coming across as pompous and pretentious here. 

Are you not familiar with the concept of language evolving? It seems to really bother you.

Hope your day is slay

Well it would certainly help; otherwise you would never know when you've found it.

They're questing for the top of the route on terrain with an uncertain outcome. Maybe go climb the likes of Wombat Chimney before you are so dismissive of what sounds evocative to me (I doubt having chalk on such a route will help much)..... some self deprecation, just for you:

Being called Offwith it would have been slack 

To continue to overlook Monolith Crack

So I tucked my vest in

and tried to go questing

Ending stuck going forwards and struggling to get back.

PS de Selingcourt's variation is VD (logbooks say VS??) and climbing the outside of the tight cleft section is about HVS.

Of course. But this is just a malignant mutation.

Didn't you know? Robert is half Vogon.

Really!? You've never had a general sense of lacking and then only realised what you were searching after it was found?

Find attached the grail of a recent quest, no way could I ever have imagined a vessel this perfect before seeing it...

I have climbed wombat chimney and it wasn't a quest,  there was no treasure and no beautiful maidens or dragons along the way.  Disappointing.

A great thing about climbing is our maidens and dragons can come in different guises

 I think it implies not only that you know what you are looking for but also that you don’t know to get there (and a level of uncertainty that it’s even possible). A somewhat greater endeavour than getting up a gritstone crack anyway.

The quest for 9a, a route up the Great Barranco/ Lowe’s Gully, or a solo ascent of Rum Doodle perhaps.

Anyway, I think you’d be on firmer ground attacking the cliché rather than the grammar.

Are you familiar with the mechanisms of evolution? 

Possibly, in a vague sort of way. But it would mean I had basically stumbled on it; I could not have gone on a purposeful quest.

Yes. Random mutations.

Useless or harmful ones tend to die out.

Ones which give an advantage or are useful tend to die out.

This use of "questing" is the former. It may as well be put out of its considerable misery sooner rather than later.

Like a lot of hip and trendy things it's likely it will die a death before too long, gnarly dude.

That was definitely my original intention. 

I only ever seem to get dragons these days. In many guises. Perhaps I need to quest more purposefully.

Is it just the climbing cliche you object to? I ask because you seem to be on a bit of a quest yourself, ever searching for that perfect early morning photo that could be titled golden hour.

Oh no, but please let us drag you off to a corner of the discussion that we think we can win...

If you begrudgingly let me have my logbook entry on this South Face (D), we can leave it. Otherwise, I'll see what I can come up with to show the utility and value of cliché...

Good Question.

Sad to hear..... your climbing and advice inspires others here, so there is no need to be a quest half empty kinda dude.

If I ever see a photo on here titled "Questing at golden hour" I shall formally lose the will to live on both counts. Especially if it is clearly and comically taken sometime in the middle of the morning.

I don't actually think there is anything wrong with a quest for a hoped for photo. In fact I have several photographic holy grails in mind myself.

Then I now have my own quest, to post a photo entitled Questing up Laser Cracks at Golden Hour.

Best of luck with yours and keep sharing the results.

How do you feel about 'freelancing'?

In what context? Some sort of equivalent to freesoloing for questing knights?

Here's wishing you strong questatiousness on your questitudinous venture, the questity of which sounds questific. I suspect success will be questilicious and will leave you questatic.

A 'quest into the unknown' is quite a common turn of phrase and perfectly sums up a scenario one occasionally must come across in adventurous trad, where you aren't 100% sure if you are on the right line, don't know when the next gear will arrive, don't know if you can do the moves, don't know whether success or imminent doom lies above, yet you have to commit to something. It is probably overused a lot and 'questy' is awful but I've definitely been in situations where 'questing' feels like the perfect verb.

Bloody hell Robert slow day is it?

I don’t think anybody has any trouble with it used as a noun.

A day? This has been simmering for months. It was just those two photos yesterday tipped me, boiling, over the edge.

You need a new hobby...

Just saw the last one; picture of a bloke in a bush...

So the fact that this one hasn't died out surely proves that it is in some way useful. Whether or not you use it is irrelevant. 

I'm not particularly keen on the fact that some bacteria have naturally selected to be resistant to penicillin, but tough for me! 

This sort of grumbling just comes across as the height of arrogance to me. Unless I'm taking it too seriously and you're actually just joking 

Hi Robert, author of one of the offending captions here. My sincerest apologies, had I known my caption would spark such controversy I would have spent a bit more time pondering my writing. Next time I will consult both a dictionary and your humble self in order to ensure my work is up to scratch!

Happy Questing,

Charlie x

No. This is just 'fannying around'.

Besides moaning, you mean...?

I was thinking about this thread this morning at the climbing gym. You must know your quest for 'Duranspeak' is doomed, that is clear from the general history of languages. However, I do remember reading something about there being healthy outlets for anger, so if this is yours then it's all good..... but don't kadge the radge!

"Climbing Gym". Is this a wind up? 

It is, of course, impossible in general to stem the flow of the tides of change of language, but I do think is worth trying to nip things such as this "questing" nonsense fad in the bud if it is not already too late.

Apology accepted. We all make mistakes.

Just don't do it again.

Well it's only been used as a verb since about the mid 14th century so if we're quick we might still have a chance.

😊

I do like that you quietly corrected to 'Durranspeak' in your reply, I apologise for my error.

It could go either way now. The thread itself may have tipped the balance. I'd not heard it before but I must admit I want to give 'questing' a go now. 

No joke. I am irate. Literally shaking with anger. At risk of dying from apoplexy.

Are there any newish mutations relating to climbing that you do approve of, Robert?

I'm with you Robert. If it's any consolation, questing is the term used to describe tick nymphs hanging on to long grass and waving their long feelers about in the hope of latching on to a warm-blooded animal. Sort of related to climbing, I suppose, and performed by parasites!

"Angry" please. FFS

Thankyou. Apology accepted.

My guess and hope is that, after the inevitable initial backlash to try to wind me up, deep down, on reflection people will come to realise just how silly it is and desist.

If you were climbing a new route onsight on a big crag or an alpine face, it might just about be defensible (though, on balance, probably not) as long as you only used "quest" and not the always horrible "questing". But using it to describe climbing well travelled and documented routes, let alone ones covered in chalk, is utterly absurd. 

Which, as anybody not arithmetically challenged will know, is precisely equivalent to a quest half full kinda dude. Though actually my quest is probably about three quarters empty/one quarter full at the moment.

I find "irate" somehow more poetic.

....and as any Psychologist will tell you, irrespective of being the arithmetically the same, it indicates the person's outlook as being more towards optimistic quester,  as opposed to pessimistic protester.

Yes, I am now well aware that is the intention (the first time someone asked me whether my glass was half full or half empty I was logically baffled), but I just think it is an ill thought out, inappropriate metaphor. The intention is actually to indicate whether people dwell on the half of their glass which is full or on the half of their glass which is empty. Of course any two fractions with a sum of one will do; I could have an optimistic outlook and choose to dwell on the fraction of my glass which is full however small or large that fraction might be. 

If you like poetic, why start a thread complaining about people being too poetic?

It's still a perfect thread for a wet day. Thank you.

There's good poetry and bad poetry.

Anyway, I was joking (just in that one post. Not about the offensiveness of "questing" obviously).

Yes. 

I found the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy utterly banal and devoid of adult-level cleverness or wit though (I have just had to do some googling).

I must admit if someone told me they were going 'questing' at the weekend I might think they were off to play Dungeons and Dragons.

Somehow I'm not shocked. I adore THGTTG (radio shows, books and TV series). I've always been highly impressed how STEM professionals can be so different but still very interesting outside of the day job.

...or Snakes & Ladders !?

You go too far.  I’m out.

I can possibly go further - Rum Doodle seemed just as extraordinarily weak to me.

Were these books written by eleven year olds for a hurried homework assignment?

Go on then...

Shame it has spoiled a nice day here...

Not climbing related, but I'm going to suggest Durmudgeon...

Reading over the thread...

Despite some people feeling the unnecessary need to give you a verbal kicking for reasons unknown that say more about their own petty frustrations, I approve of people having strong opinions about words, and salute you. But, I do personally feel that there is a lot of beauty to be found in those ways in which people subvert grammar, shift word class as though accelerating an old banger down a hill, and transform meanings in unexpected ways. Maybe you're overdue a long meditation on the philosophy of language. After all, mountains often form borders, and language is always a messy business on the edge of things - an often beautiful mess. And maybe Stanage on a Sunday afternoon is the edge of things. Pursuing an eccentric hobby in the English midlands... what could be more marginal?

"In Hard" because it serves a useful purpose.

"Send" because, at least in this country, it's use started playfully ironically. 

I'm sure there are many others I use without thinking. 

I couldn't agree more. For me, these are the best routes, climbing near your limit, winding about through otherwise harder ground, going past big roofs, devious wee traverses etc, where the line only really becomes clear as you slowly make progress. The difference between this and going up an obvious crack is chalk and cheese. These 'out there', questing routes are often the most memorable. I don't know what other word you'd use to describe it; 'adventurous' often has negative connotations (loose rock etc). Robert's suggestion of 'climbing' certainly doesn't cut it; most routes involve that  

It's made a weird day weirder here.....

Anyway, about to quest up the Ratho autobelays. 

Even on this route? Questor (VS 4c)

One for Charlotte Dujardin? An Equestrian of Sport (VD)

Stumbled upon it.

Also 'basically' is superfluous here. A bit like the liberal use of 'literally'. Please stop.

What...is your name?

What...is your quest?

What...is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Robert Durran (I don't post under a false name).

To climb at least E3 and 7b, (both onsight) again before I grow too old and die.

About 20mph (you could, like I just did, have googled that). Why do you ask anyway?

youtube.com/watch?v=0D7hFHfLEyk&

Did Google say if it was a European or African swallow?

No.

Anyway, don't they migrate between the two and therefore have dual nationality (continentality?)?

Sorry.

‘Send’ is an abomination, deriving from no meaningful original, unlike tick it, do it, link it etc. If it’s a corruption of ‘ascend’ it still sounds lame and claiming you’re being ironic is not a valid defence.

The value of ‘quest’ is that it references the travails of the knights errant: purposeful, long, arduous and hazardous search with no certain outcome. 
 

As others have said, only really appropriate for onsighting big adventurous trad. 

I like it, it's often a little tongue in cheek you know. I'm both pedant and admirer of new language uses. Moral GPS swithering wildly.

No, "send" is fun, playful. No pomposity. One of the very few US imports I like.

I'm pretty sure it's not in most uses I've seen.

Geoffrey Winthrop Young excepted? 

There is a region of heart’s desire
free for the hand that wills;
land of the shadow and haunted spire,
land of silvery glacier fire,
land of the cloud and the starry choir,
magical land of hills;
loud with the crying of winds and streams,
thronged with the fancies and fears of dreams.

There are perils of knightly zest
fit for the warrior’s craft;
pitiless giants with rock-bound crest,
mystical wells for the midnight rest,
ice-crowned castles and halls, to test
steel with the ashen shaft;
realms to be won by the well-swung blow,
rest to be earned by the yielding foe.

Frosted cities of timeless sleep
wait for the errant knight;
kingly forest and frowning steep,
spirits of mist and of fathomless deep,
snow-winged dragons of fear that keep
watch o’er each virgin height;
treasure of dawn and a crown of stars
his who can shatter the frozen bars.

All that the wanderer’s heart can crave,
life lived thrice for its lending,
hermits vigil in dreamlit cave,
gleams of the vision that Merlin gave,
comrades till death, and a wind swept grave,
joy of the journey’s ending:—

Ye who have climbed to the great white veil,
heard ye the chant? Saw ye the Grail?

I feel it could also apply to a well chalked obvious trad route if the climber looks as though they are doing something big and adventurous - i.e. stressed, over-committed and a bit sketchy. They are climbing questily.

Awful poem. You do realise you're bolstering Robert's case here?

You're sure about that? Just as you're sure 'questing' isn't?

You're an enigma, Robert...

My climbing style, exactly. 

😂 Proving the rule? Hopeless romantics of the world beg to differ, but I concede it's best not read out loud. "Life lived thrice for its lending" sells it to me.

No, they only look like they are climbing "questily"

I imagine I looked like I was climbing quite "questily" when trying multiple methods to get off the ground before giving up on a 6c on the Ratho autobelays last night; exploring and probing every possibility.

Why are the autobelays always a massively undergraded series of injury inducing awkward bouldery moves when all I want is a bit of mindless endurance?😡

Not one of his best shall we say (I think my favourite poem is one of his though*).

Yes, despite all the nonsense about knights and grails and despite providing himself with multiple rhyming opportunities in the second verse, he manages to avoid the Q word. Well done Geoffrey.

* I have not lost the magic of long days,
I live them, dream them still
Still I am a master of the starry ways,
And freeman of the hills;
Shattered my glass, ere half the sands had run.
I hold the heights, I hold the heights, I won.

Mine still the hope that haileth me from each height
Mine the unresting flame.
With dreams I charmed each doing to delight;
I charm my rest the same.
Severed my skin, ere half the strands were spun
I keep the dreams, I keep the dreams I won.

What if I live no more those kingly days?
Their night sleeps with me still.
I dream my feet upon the starry ways;
My heart rests in the hill.
I may not grudge, the little left undone.
I hold the heights, I keep the dreams I won.

What's wrong with a moral map and compass FFS?

Microwaved Wordsworth mixed with cloying Tennyson and overburdened with colonial swagger. Only the homoerotic puns give interest.

Ah yes, I hadn't even noticed the bloke in the bush. Maybe he is the one doing the questing, perhaps for somewhere to take a dump and the bloke on the rock is just incidental.

Oh yes, they are in almost every line with enough imagination.

I'm sure that I have done many leads where I've gone repeatedly up and down gradually getting further until I overcame the crux. Questing might have been usable on those occasions but other descriptions would have been more apposite such as "vacillating" or "familiarising" or maybe just "crap climber" 😁

There we go, you've adopted the adverbial. Soon the scare quotes will disappear and you'll be questing with the best of them

Yes, and I did just check it wasn't in the title either.

Yours truly

Malham at the crack of dawn?

One of the quirks of the English language - almost any noun can be verbed.

Iis clear that "quest" and "questing" are legitimate words in themselves.  It is their use in climbing which is puzzling me, and which hadn't come to my notice until this thread. 

In normal usage I think the word carries a hint of a moral purpose. It is not just that the search may be long and difficult, it implies it should be for something worthwhile. The search for truth is a quest, searching for your glasses is not.

Mountaineering might sometimes be a quest, and it could possibly be applied to a big and adventurous rock or ice route, but only in exceptional situations. I'm struggling to see how a gritstone crack or a boulder problem could be described as a "quest" in any normal sense of the word. So what is it that the users are trying to convey? 

One time the battery ran out and I made some terrible decisions, I should go back to the old ways. But then I also had a compass where the polarity reversed...

Here's GWY doing what I think is a good job of capturing the intensity of focus we must all have sometimes felt in our quests for our particular grails - spiritual transcendence, a plus on our hardest grade, burning off our mates etc. Fans of homoeroticism may especially enjoy the second stanza.

The Cragsman

In this short span
between my fingertips on the smooth edge
and these tense feet cramped on the crystal ledge
I hold the life of man.
Consciously I embrace
arched from the mountain rock on which I stand
to the firm limit of my lifted hand the front of time and space: -
For what is there in all the world for me
but what I know and see?
And what remains of all I see and know
if I let go.

With this full breath
bracing my sinews as I upward move
boldly reliant to the rift above
I measure life from death.
With each strong thrust
I feel all motion and all vital force
borne on my strength and hazarding their course
in my self trust:-
There is no movement of what kind it be
but has its source in me:
And should these muscles falter to release
motion itself must cease.

In these two eyes
that search the splendour of earth, and seek
the sombre mysteries on plain and peak
all vision wakes and dies.
With these my ears
that listen to the sound of lakes asleep
and love the larger rumour from the deep
the eternal hears: -
For all of beauty that this life can give
lives only while I live;
And with the light my hurried vision lends
all beauty ends.

The first four lines say it all.

I really like High Hills too:

There is much comfort in high hills,
and a great easing of the heart.
We look upon them, and our nature fills
with loftier images from their life apart.
They set our feet on curves of freedom, bent
to snap the circles of our discontent.

Mountains are moods ; of larger rhythm and line,
moving between the eternal mode and mine.
Moments in thought, of which I too am part,
I lose in them my instant of brief ills.
There is great easing of the heart,
and cumulance of comfort on high hills.
 

I think questing could be validly applied to pretty much every route that Jesse Dufton leads.

I quest, therefore I am.

Quest West young man.

That's the first time I've thought of ticks as moral creatures questing for the life of their babies. Or questing could just mean waving limbs into the unknown in the hope of grabbing something (which I can totally relate to)

Although I get the impression that routes which play to his stengths are the least "questy" ones.

Edited for inverted commas. Oops....

In which case Jesse Dufton is the "questiest" climber out there.

Edit: ditto

To be fair, I think only one person has seen fit to attack me in a way outside the intended playful spirit of the thread. I actually think the general response and the ratio of likes to dislikes shows that I have pitched things at about the right level of provocation (or at least satisfactorily to myself!)

There is, of course, nothing wrong with language evolving, but I think it is a shame when a word gets overused in ways which so dilute it's meaning that it can effectively become meaningless. "Quest" has not yet become synonymous with "climb" but it's overuse in trivial ways means that it's shades of meaning are in danger of being lost. I liked the idea that a quest ought to have something moral about it; certainly something beyond the everyday, perhaps at least a certain depth and test of character. As such I think it should be used pretty sparingly with respect to climbing if it is not to lose its impact. Certainly just casually calling a whole class of less than easy to follow climbs "questy" does, I think, devalue the idea.

Equally importantly, I think a quest has to actually be for something specific. So these photograph captions of the type "So and so questing up such and such a climb", which triggered my thinking on this, do, I think, miss the essential essence of the word. But "Questing for holds" or "Questing for the line" or "Questing for a belay" might occasionally be appropriate.

The English language has a rich history of turning nouns into verbs. Actually, I might have to Google that.

It is not really the turning of a noun in to a verb as such that I have issue with. 

It is not really the turning of a noun in to a verb as such that I have an issue with. It is that the invention (or at least proliferation) of the verb has facilitated the lazy and all too often inappropriate likening of a climb to a quest, most obviously to me in photo captions.

I have heard some climbs described metaphorically as a voyage and this might sometimes feel appropriate and in those cases I would have  no issue with the idea of a climber voyaging. But this, unlike quest/questing has not been overused and cheapened.

No problem with send as a noun or verb (which actually came first?) and of course the adjective sendy; here there never was anything to cheapen in the first place (and nothing wrong with that!).

But I do hate "medal" as a verb and "podium" is even worse (these almost put me off following the Olympics). But I can't quite put my finger on why - possibly I am, in fact, just curmudgeoning in these cases.

And, now that I have mentioned the Olympics, don't get me started on Team GB (likewise Mountaineering Scotland). Since when were the names of countries and nations adjectives to be placed after the noun? It is utter nonsense.

"possibly I am, in fact, just curmudgeoning" - bingo!

Don't forget to trouser that medal when you do win it!

I love a good bit of verbification

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bidean_nam_bian-534/the_holy_grail...

You're welcome.

I like to verb some nouns myself.

What's Rob's opinion on the word 'proddling'?

Who knows?! Well... I guess I would - as I took the photo. The one of that bloke in a bush - and captioned it as such. I guess I could provide some context but that hasn't really been asked for has it, and somewhat ruins the condescending pontification of this thread. 

As we are discussing language and turns of phrase however I would like to share a personal favourite of mine:

Opinions are like arseholes - everybody has one, and they all stink. 

But what would I know? I'm just a punter taking rubbish photos of my mates in a bush, seemingly "angering" some corner of UKC who clearly have little else better to do than attempt to turn what I usually see as a very inclusive community into something much more exclusive. I personally detest possessiveness of language, thought or nuance in discussion... Ah but there's my opinion reeking through the seams. Woops, better stop now. Better things to do!

Anyway - I'm off to North Wales now, forever questing! Expect a few more photos of my gallant quests (now changed to provoking UKC forums).

Tata darlings!

I'm pretty sure this is ok:

"The old tramp was stuggling to find his matches. I decided to help him with his quest"

No Rum Doodle is rubbish

A further objection to the term ‘questing' for most English writers would be that, to put it in Fowler’s terminology ('The King’s English' and ‘Modern English Usage’) it is anglicising a Latin word. Fowler insists that the ‘good writer’ should always ‘Prefer the Saxon word to the Romance’.  (By Romance he means a word descended directly from Latin i.e. Italian, French, Spanish).

As I understand it the whole “Robert Durran” phenomenon is some kind of art project. A former member of the KLF may be involved.

So is the objection that "quest" is latin but " -ing" is saxon and that they should not be mixed? And, if this is the case, should we be making do without present participles of verbs of latin derivation, or can we invent, say, "questens"?

Are there several of them?

I had to google KLF and I can assure you that none of them are involved in any way.

Yes, that’s more or less what Fowler is saying. Remember, he’s talking about preferences rather than hard and fast rules. (If you’ve never read it, The King’s English, first published in 1906, is still well worth reading.)

It’s worth quoting the opening lines of The King’s English:

"ANY one who wishes to become a good writer should endeavour, before he allows himself to be tempted by the more showy qualities, to be direct, simple, brief, vigorous, and lucid.

This general principle may be translated into practical rules in the domain of vocabulary as follows:

  Prefer the familiar word to the far-fetched.
  Prefer the concrete word to the abstract.
  Prefer the single word to the circumlocution.
  Prefer the short word to the long.
  Prefer the Saxon word to the Romance. 

These rules are given roughly in order of merit; the last is also the least…." 

This is exactly the sort of thing a former member of the KLF would say. 

Guessing Joyce didn’t have a copy. 

You seemed to be apologising for finding RD less than great.

HHGG atleast has some great bits and very funny ideas throughout.

And yet the the person who put a caption under the photos didn't adhere to these principles!!!!

Nor David Foster Wallace...Thomas Pynchon...John Fowles...Will Self...etc etc.

Yes, rules are a dangerous thing in English, though worth keeping in mind. Having said that, I do enjoy dipping into Joyce occasionally. By that I mean reading a few pages at a time, in smallish doses.

Nor Lewis Carroll it seems, but then the publication of the kings english was after his time

"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;"

(Sorry still packing... couldn't help myself!)

Somebody found me less than great? 

Oh I see........

I didn't intend to apologise for finding Rum Doodle rubbish. Rum Doodle is rubbish, no?

The best known bits I have heard leave me completely cold. I can sort of see why they are supposed to be clever or funny, but they just aren't.

Inventing words is not the same as bad English. Lewis Carroll wrote perfect English. The wonderful, inimitable Jabberwocky is grammatically flawless.

You're saying I need to stop my favourite type of climbing? Nah, sorry Bob - I'll keep questing thanks....

I think the ascent of Rum Doodle is a wonderful, all-time piss take of mountaineering expedition books, and everyone who writes one would do well to read it first as a terrible warning not to take themselves too seriously. P.S. I say this as someone who ‘has been high.'

What about Querying the Requesting of the discontinuing of "questing"?

No. Though I suppose it does labour some of the jokes a little.

Possibly it's just that you don't find them funny. Out of curiosity, to set a benchmark, what do you find funny?

Edit: Winding up reactionary UKCers aside.

Quest on my face Bobby

Nobody wants to stop anyone doing any sort of climbing, least of all me. I love that sort of climbing too!

Quest? That was popular in the late 90s, Kevin Thaw used to use it, a lot, when we lived in California, bugs me as much now as it did then.

Looking at the number of photos now appearing with "Questing", I think Robert's whole stance has been a bluff and the whole intent was to introduce this word into wider climbing consciousness. 🤣🤣

Petard...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/questing-773155?v=1#x9939246

Questing is real 😉

I have accepted that questing might be appropriate if used sparingly. So I think "wandering" would probably be fine in most instances. "Intricate" would work well as an adjective in most cases. What I dind ridiculous is when "questing" is used when simply, say, "climbing up" or "moving across" is perfectly adequate.

There was always going to be an initial backlash.

Out of curiosity, to set a benchmark, what do you find funny?

I'll have a think. I don't tend to read comic books

Eh? I thought I was the reactionary one!

You've lost me there.

You railed against the use of a terminal ', no?'. And then went on to use the very construct yourself.

Hoist by your own petard.

I agree that you are the reactionary one...

It might be a backlash or it might be the Streisand effect.

Yes, quite deliberately as an allusion to previous posts. It was a joke (though not, admittedly, a funny one).

I see. It's all becoming clear now.

I thought the tongue in cheek use of it was obvious.

That looks very questworthy.

But what if you fail? You'll be left feeling very questfallen.

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.”

I'm not sure whether that is in support of my post you replied to or not. 

Isn’t ambiguity delicious?

I went back today with a rope. It was easy enough on a shunt but questing upward on-sight solo was beyond me. I think Robert would be bold enough to just quest his way up it.  

How hard is it? Is the climbing actually questy?

I can’t grade it! It’s easy like between Diff and Severe but with next to no gear for 50m…

Edit: Definitely questy.

Frankly Mr. Shankly (open project) (Project)

Oh no! A photo has just been uploaded of someone 'teching' up a boulder. Will the madness never end?

Worse, in fact. They are "teching it out". Yes, I saw that and wondered whether or not it was someone being deliberately provocative and I was trying to resist.

Oddly, the real but overused word "questing" has spawned the invented and sort of playful "questy", whereas "techy" has been around for a long time with this verbal "teching" only just apparently appearing.

Anyway, horrid stuff.

Questing up a techy send at Bolton-le-Sands' premier bouldering venue

Or sending up a techy quest...

Yes, crest, test, rest, zest but no quest. The guy blew it.

Where is it by the way? If you've already said, sorry.

Here…

Spireslack

https://youtu.be/XDiOqiLRBCM?si=SlqHRwdi21oSMDdw
 

Death on a stick vDiff’s abound.

Excellent, even the Yorks Grit guide and ukc is trolling now. I did this yesterday: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/scout-1554/back_o_the_bay_left-han...

This sounds like a challenge. How about some Wodehouse, and see how you go from there?

A one move quest!

Yes, Wodehouse is amusing.