UKC

https://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/lundyisland/discovering-lundy/activities/c...

Its not good news! The Island has just announced restrictions with immediate effect. It means a total ban on climbing until the 15 August, the only exception being made is the Devil's Slide. Unlike previous years, there has been no consulation with the BMC or the acess reps - only notification. I do not propose anyone should complain about this given the sensitivity and the fact that its too late. I do think that Climbers should take up the warden's statement that this is under 'constant review' as the Warden is open to this.  I do think that an explaination from the Island would be helpful if only to help pursuade climbers that there is good evidence for it. There's currently a 17 mile ban in North Cornwall where the evidence for Climbing restrictions is weak. It may be the case that: there's an ongoing issue about bird flu all seabirds are affected including common gulls; It could be because the breeding season has been late this year due to the cold spring; it might have something to do with the Storm Petrels nesting and roosting in and around the Battery; it might be that Fulmars are struggling and need more protection; it might be because Lundy has regained its status as a bird observatory. But what ever the reason, some evidence would be helpful to make it easier to accept and support.

In reply to Simon Cardy:

It's worth noting that I have heard of climbers on the island getting the bird restrictions on certain sections lifted early after consultation with the warden (only after the birds have left). However if the nesting season has started later than usual and the birds are still there then there is nothing to be done.

In reply to Simon Cardy:

This is not good news for our club's trip from 10-17th August...

I'd been blissfully unaware that Lundy bird bans extended beyond 31st July, which is the normal cut-off for most places, and was certainly the end date on previous trips I've had to the island (and is the date referenced in the 2008 guidebook).

I guess I'll be packing my binoculars!

In reply to Simon Cardy:

I've been in touch with the warden and his response left me optimistic but I agree this needs to be more evidence based and proper notice should have been given, which given that the accommodation is normally booked a year ahead means it should have been announced now for introducing in 2025

In reply to Simon Cardy: this just doesn’t surprise me and I doubt it will ever change as I assume it’s been too much of a success and doubt it will change and I would love to return and I hope against expectation that it will change 

In reply to Steve Woollard:

I don’t think the birds plan their nesting times that far ahead! Birds nesting can be affected by weather both in the UK and wherever they are migrating from. It can also be affected by their food source so if sand eels don’t appear until later in the season birds will also nest later. Lundy is a rare and special place for birds, reckon the least climbers can do - and in fairness we do, is give them the best possible chance. I’m sometimes amazed they haven’t just banned climbing completely, guess our willingness to do our bit has stood in good stead.

In reply to CathS:

If you need to change plans the Barn is now available  3-7 Sep!

See my post https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/destinations/lundy_-_the_barn_-_available...

In reply to Slarti B:

Thanks for the offer Slarti B.  However we are now fully paid up for the Barn for our week, so cancellation isn't an option without losing a lot of money (I'm not the organiser of our trip btw).

I think we are all just keeping our fingers crossed that there'll be some last minute review and revision of the restrictions.

It will still be a lovely place to spend a week, even if the climbing is a bit limited.

In reply to Simon Cardy:

Thanks Simon.

Yes, these changes came out of the blue without the BMC office or the Lundy access rep being consulted. 

This is being followed up....

In reply to CathS:

Cath, Sorry to hear that.  We have been several times before and it is a lovely place but if you are losing several days climbing that will be very frustrating.  Hope something gets sorted out for your trip otherwise I guess there is always the Marisco Tavern...🍺

best wishes

In reply to Simon Cardy:

You will be well aware of this Simon but I'd just draw people's attention to the fact that not all restrictions end on 14th August. A small number of areas continue to be restricted until the 15th September. While these are generally not the most popular areas, they do include classics such as Immaculate Slab (HVS 5a) which I was hoping to finally get round to on what may well be my last visit with Wolverhampton MC this year on.... 7th-14th September!

In reply to CathS:

I may be naïve but I'd like to think that in this situation (ie you've booked the Barn for a climbing week and Lundy aren't able to offer any climbing) you should be permitted to cancel with a full refund, or at least with a transfer of your money to a future year's booking. They were willing to transfer our money to a future year when we were unable to go due to COVID. Slightly different, I know, as Lundy had closed the Barn due to COVID, whereas this year it's still open, but the effect is the same. You've booked and paid for a climbing week, and their decision has removed that opportunity.

I take Simon Cardy's point that it might be politic not to complain too loudly while negotiations are still not totally closed down, and you should perhaps liaise with him, or with the BMC Office, before complaining, but I think politely pointing out that it would be reasonable for Lundy to refund your money would be entirely appropriate.

Martin

In reply to Martin Hore:

Unfortunately that's not how accommodation booking T&Cs normally work...

We've paid for provision of accommodation, not provision of a specific activity.

People go on holiday to Lundy for lots of different activities, many of which might not always be possible.

You wouldn't get a refund if you went for a birdwatching week and didn't see any puffins, for example.

There are plenty of other things to enjoy on the island.

In reply to Simon Cardy:

What baffles me with this announcement is that it is already over 80% into the nominal bird breeding period (which starts from 31st March).   

A bit late for the birds that decided to nest at the 8 or so other climbing sectors previously shown on the Landmark Trust's website as being unrestricted; which presumably climbers have been accessing all year up to now.

In reply to CathS:

Hi Cath. If you and your party are happy enjoying the other activities Lundy has to offer then that's fine of course. I hope you have a great trip! 

When I've gone to Lundy, and stayed in the Barn, it's always been as part of a mountaineering club trip. Just from the name on the booking it would have been obvious that we were going primarily for the climbing. Although we did do some other activities on wet days, I would not have gone if climbing wasn't an option, and would have been highly annoyed to find that almost all climbing was banned at such short notice before our trip, when we had booked expecting a good selection of cliffs to be open..

Most accommodation T's and C's relate to commercial organisations. As far as I'm aware, the Landmark Trust and the other organisations with responsibility for Lundy are charities, and one might expect a high standard of customer care (which, to be fair, in my experience of Lundy, we have usually found to be the case). 

If Lundy expected a financial hit from the decision they have made, they might have been a bit more careful not to act at short notice in the way they have. I'm not saying that the birds shouldn't have priority at their key sites during their nesting season, but a clear notice in the Landmark Trust's booking information that bookings are made on the understanding that any or all climbing cliffs might be subject to bans up to (say) mid August, would be a fair warning.

I very much hope that ongoing negotiations lead to a more satisfactory outcome in future years. Lundy climbing is too exceptional to lose, and we should all, of course, be grateful to the Landmark Trust, and the other organisations responsible for Lundy, for the work they do maintaining public access to this special place.

Martin

In reply to Martin Hore:

I'm not the trip organiser, but I suspect like me when they booked the trip they didn't realise that restrictions on Lundy extend up to 14th August.

So making this information more explicit during booking would be a good step forward by the Landmark Trust.

I am familiar with bird restrictions in Pembroke up to the end of July, and it used to be the same on Lundy (as referenced in the current, 2008, guidebook). 

So I'd naively assumed our dates would be fine, and was a bit shocked when checking out routes on UKC a couple of months ago I saw that there were very extensive restrictions (at that time limiting climbing to just 10 small sectors) up to mid-August - and excluding almost all of the crags I'd hoped to climb on.  This info was on Landmark's website, but you had to search for it.

I wouldn't have booked to go on the trip if I'd known this a year ago when the cash was put down, and I suspect the trip organiser wouldn't have done either. 

I don't suppose that we are the first climbers to be caught out by this. It would be good to know the reasons why Lundy operates on different timescales to elsewhere.  Different bird species perhaps? Or an abundance of caution with the designated status and sensitivity of the island?

Of course there's the possibility that the restrictions could be lifted earlier depending on the situation on the ground.  But for me at least it isn't really viable to commit valuable annual leave allowance and nearly £400 in accommodation and boat costs for a trip where it will only be confirmed if we can climb once we get there.

In reply to CathS:

And of course we can always go and climb the Devil's Slide, although my previous experience of queueing all day to do that route wasn't a good one...

In reply to CathS:

I shouldn't worry too much Cath as it'll probably rain anyway 🤩

In reply to CathS:

There are some decent routes (not classic by any means) on the 'inland' crags on the other side of the island. I'd be surprised if these were banned.

In reply to CathS:

What has changed is that previously there were still quite a lot of crags which were still open to climbing. What is new this year is that they have extended the closure to cover almost everything.

If I recall correctly, you are asked when you book to say if you will be climbing , so they should have been aware this was the purpose of the visit.

I think it is worth pointing out to them that you had booked your trip in the reasonable expectation that the restrictions would be the same as in previous years, and this last minute change has meant that the purpose of the trip cannot be fulfilled. Regardless of what the T&Cs say, they may be willing to offer something as a goodwill gesture. If you don't ask...

In reply to CathS:

Maybe you should demand a complete and full refund - after all, you didn't book the place to go birdwatching, and they've basically just ruined your holiday.

Birds nesting later is one thing, but they shouldn't expect to make last minute changes - a complete ban - without some negative impact on their income.

In reply to fred99:

I don't mind doing a couple of days birdwatching if I can't go climbing.  But if I don't see any puffins, storm petrels or Manx shearwaters I might ask for my money back 😅

In reply to CathS:

I've done four or five routes on the Slide so if you're OK with eliminates that might give you a bit of fresh rock to enjoy.

( Can't guarantee they won't all feel a bit samey, obviously...)

In reply to Simon Cardy:

I'm currently one on Lundy island and thought I'd drop a little update on the bird restrictions currently going on.  Quite a few areas have already opened up to us including parts of:

Flying Buttress

Landing Craft Bay (but not St Patrick's)

Beaufort Buttress

Devils Slide up to the Fortress

Joe the warden has been fantastic, it's worth dropping him an email beforehand to meet up with him when you arrive. He sat down with us and went through everything that was okay (and seems to have an encyclopedic knowledge of bird nesting sites). He's quite keen to open up as much of the island as he can but there's still quite a few nesting sites around the place. The new restrictions are just down to the number of birds / nesting sites around.

​​

In reply to NeilHowarth:

That's really helpful, thanks. We're arriving next Saturday 😁

In reply to Steve Woollard:

If you're bored , Steve, you could take a wire brush (or three) and remove the brillo from the top pitch of Shark.  I've done the main pitch a few times but not managed to do the top pitch yet.

Dave