UKC

Hi all,

I'm after a bit of advice. I've been climbing for a couple of years now (largely indoors) and I absolutely love it. My challenge is I'm socially retarded (apologies if this is not PC), so to this day I have struggled to find a regular partner. I've managed to climb with several individuals over the time I've been climbing, but no-one seems to stick, which in turn limits my opportunity to climb various routes. I've tried getting onto course and putting myself out there to make friends, but nothing I do seems to work.

Is this normal? I'm 37 so I do wonder if its an age thing as my teenage daughter has no problem making friends and finding climbing partners. 

I'll continue to chat with people .etc but I really am beginning to question whether the social inept are doomed to fail with climbing? It is after all a social sport which requires good communication.

Any and all tips/tricks would be welcome.

~ J ~

Sorry for stating the obvious but have you thought about joining a club! I do get that clubs don’t suit everyone but for getting partners it’s a good option!

Hope you find someone to climb with. Abr suggestion of a club is a brilliant start. I've met loads of climbing partners through bouldering and putting myself out there.

Here's a couple of things you can think about with your past climbing partners. Please don't take any of these as criticism

• Is it your belaying style that puts people off? There some people I don't want belaying me.
• Could it be the days and hours you're able to climb? 
• Miss match of climbing objects?
• Have they stopped climbing and it's nothing to do with you? You're just being unlucky.

As I said at the start, I really hope you find someone to climb with. Maybe one of your daughters parents?

I've never understood this. You wrote it, considered that it might cause offence, but decided that rather than changing it you'd write out an apology. Which probably took longer than amending the word.

Surely either have courage in your word choice and plow ahead without apology, or write something different. This middle ground doesn't seem to have any benefits that I can see. Anyone who's going to be offended is still going to be offended. Perhaps more so because you've demonstrated that you understood it was offensive rather than it just not having occurred to you. 

In speech, it's easier to understand. Something slipped out before your brain caught up and you apologised afterwards because you can't Ctrl-Z what you just said out loud, much as many of us might wish to on occasion.

As for your central question, I don't know quite what kind of social awkwardness you experience, but climbing isn't exactly short on curmudgeons, misfits or all sorts of variations on neurodiversity, so I'm sure you can find your place and your people if you persist.

This really resonates with me. I love climbing, but I struggle with social anxiety. As a teenager/student I found it easier, but now in my 40s I find it very hard to find partners, and many of my former regular partners no longer live close by or now have other higher priority interests in their lives.

For me, a large part of the problem is that I am abysmal at small talk. I don't have that skill of turning a  mundane question about my day into a conversation. I also find it very difficult to remain focused on a conversation that doesn't align with my interests, and I find it difficult to hide it when my interest wanes.

As a result of this, I can have a great day climbing with someone, but I always find it difficult to gel on a personal level, so these events often remain as one-offs.

Clubs are helpful in this regard - they generally operate to make sure that everyone has a partner, and they give me the opportunity to meet with and climb with the same people repeatedly, which means that I'm not so reliant on first impressions, and can generally turn an acquaintance into a real friend who I will climb with outside of club events over the period of a couple of months.

I do find it difficult to attend an event with a new club events in the first instance - I have found if you contact the membership or social secretary in advance and explain that you are nervous, they will often arrange to meet you outside the pub/climbing wall/whatever to walkin with you and introduce you around to take some of the pressure off.

Exposure is key and I'm not on about height, I mean exposure to society! We're all different but the more you apply yourself to social interactions, the easier it gets and I reckon this is down to neuroplasticity.

As with climbing, you might take a few whippers (arguments/awkwardness) but everyone experiences this. There's no shame in withdrawing and recharging the proverbial batteries but YOU REALLY SHOULD get back out there. If work doesn't provide much interaction, do a bit of volunteering in your spare time, or as suggested, join a club. Throw yourself in at the deep end. Push the wall. Keep doing it.

Good luck. Feel free to DM me if you want to 

but climbing isn't exactly short on curmudgeons, misfits or all sorts of variations on neurodiversity,

If you want to meet a group of misfits just join a caving club 

Where are you based? Name your local wall/crag and I'm sure someone here will meet up with you.

Although my local wall has a social night. There isn't a club as far as I'm aware. I am however now wondering if this may be an option with a wall thats a little further away but still within reach. Its a really could shout so thank you. I'm definitely going to check this out!

It's all good, I'm very thick skinned. You also make a valid point and actually the first few people I climbed with I moved away from because I didn't trust them to catch me if I fell. Maybe others have looked at me in the same way.

Others that I've climbed with, especially those recently (daughters friends parents), I may just be missing with us hitting the wall at different times. I might try to switch things up and head in at a different time of the day. I can't hurt to try right...

The miss match point you made is also a good call. I've found some fantastic people whilst bouldering, but they don't like to lead and/or venture outdoors. Perhaps I just need to grab a sarnie and wait by the crag for other like minded individuals to pass by. 🤔

The apology is for anyone who is offended by my self-deprecating choice of words. It wasn't written to cause offence, more to give an understanding of myself.

In speech, it is easier to understand. I agree with that point. If we were face to face it would be obvious that I meant no harm in what I said, but you can not hear the nuances through my writing, hence why I put the apology. 

I've persisted this long. I think I'm in it for the long haul now.

Thought about taking up bouldering?

It’s a lot easier to get chatting to someone at the crag/wall when you are not on the end of a rope. Also if you can’t find a partner then you can still get out climbing.

[edit to add]
I just noticed you mentioned bouldering.

I’ve found partners though a club, through bouldering at the wall (though as you say most people either don’t get out or just boulder) and through mentioning climbing to friends who aren’t necessarily climbers but might know some. It’s taken a while to get a bunch of people who I can climb with though!

[edit to add more]
I’m very much in the same category of social anxiety/awkwardness as you and Kathrync but I find the more a get to know someone the better I like them and the less awkward the conversation. Also the climbing itself is a reliable topic of conversation so there is always that!

You've summed up the issue perfectly! I was also fine when I was younger, but as I've got older its gotten harder to connect with people. Over the years I've learnt to do the small talk thing, and actually its now a part of my day to day but I do find it hard work. As a result, sometimes I just can't be bothered, it's draining, I just want to climb 😅 

Good analogy! You're not wrong. I should keep trying, and I will. 

In terms of these clubs people keep speaking of. I think I might need to find one 

Edge of Northampton. My closest wall is The Pinnacle, but I'm not far from Big Rock either

I may be misreading this, but your post here sounds a bit like maybe you’re hoping for (vs asking for) climbing partners.

If that is at all the case (and sorry if not, not trying to be patronising at all), I personally find saying what you want really helps. It’s like dating: you need to get on well and feel comfortable with the person, but at some point (as early as you dare, without forcing it) it helps to say what you want and ask them out (climbing).

For example, if you meet someone at the bouldering wall and think they might be a good climbing partner, once you’ve struck up conversation and you’re getting on well enough, it works best to say things like:

- “do you lead climb?” (Cue conversation about what they’ve got up to, both of your experiences doing it, etc., you feel they are likely to be competent and safe)

- “It’s been great chatting. I’m always looking looking for lead climbing partners, do you want to go sometime - next week?” Rather than hoping for the best.

Then once you’ve been climbing with them, if it works well you just keep arranging it and maybe get a regular slot. If they have a WhatsApp group for eg “Mondays at the X wall” you get yourself that. Etc. The first bit is the hardest! Once you’re in, you’re in (assuming you do get on and they think you’re safe).

A couple of other thoughts:

- do steer away from language that can offend people, at least at first before you’ve sussed them out and vice versa - easy to give the wrong impression

- try to steer away from the negative self talk (“Im bad with people” etc) as it can become self fulfilling. easier said than done but worth a try

- It’s ok to not be great at meeting new people, not socially outgoing, feeling awkward - it is very normal and nothing to be ashamed of. Others you talk to likely feel the same and are glad someone is being friendly.

- also more than ok to be introverted / find meeting new people tiring. I sometimes do. So I don’t do it if I don’t feel like it! 

hope this helps…

Finding people to climb with through this post would be great, but that's not what this was about. I was more seeking reassurance that I'm doing the right things and that all will be well in the end. Based on the responses so far, I am now convinced of that. I just need to persist and perhaps find one of these 'clubs' people keep talking about. Eventually I will find my people it just might take a little longer.

The negative language also needs to stop, I do agree with that. 🙏

😂 I feel your pain. I'm not great socially.

I'd say be yourself and don't apologize for it. I've hooked up with other people like myself and had good climbing days but where little is said .....we both know the score and just climb.

Where abouts are you and what grades etc. Fill your profile in.

This echoes my own feelings and experiences climbing over the years. I've always tended to have a handful of regular partners who I either gel with or can tolerate my conversational inadequacies. 

Funnily enough I've just started climbing again in my mid forties after a long break and I'm finding I'm better at the social side of climbing than I used to be even if I'm still terrible at small talk.

Richard

I've been in the same position trying to find new partners, I'm fairly shy and do find it hard engaging with people I don't know. 

I came back to climbing a year ago and really had to force myself to put myself out there. I've found partners on local Facebook groups, UKC and getting contacts from the people I've climbed with. It's helped that a few old partners have come out of the woodwork.

I've just had to keep plugging away and given the choice between not climbing or putting myself in an uncomfortable situation for a short period while I get to know people I chose the latter. At one point I contemplated just going to the wall and using the auto belay but that seemed even worse.

I do detest the casual modern usage of the word retarded though.

"plow"

I'm pretty offended by that word choice.

The word choice or the Americanised spelling? Not very happy about the latter myself, with the benefit of hindsight.

Learn roped soloing°, I did partly due being unsociable and partly down to working hours.

°Takes time though

The spelling. Regrettable, indeed

Yes, from my point of view this is totally normal. Throughout the decades, I've pretty much only been able to hang onto one climbing partner, and we roughly get out once a month during the summer. I dare say this situation is not helped by my own inflexibility and a particularly penchant for very early starts.

I had more people to climb with at times when I was in a club for around 4 years. However, I happened to be single at the time, so could invest lots of time. I'm not sure that approach would work at all now, if I were to look for a new one to join.

I've also met up with one or 2 others from here for particular missions, sea stacks, Cuillin Ridge, etc and I now climb with one of those for a few days annually.

I get it, you're ultimately having to trust another person, possibly a complete stranger with your life, and vice versa, potentially straight outta the gate. It's not exactly humble beginnings.

Overall this situation has meant that I've developed soloing skills to fill in the gaps where I might otherwise be climbing with more people.

I don't know if any of this helps but I wish you well.

Edit: good/could

I have actually considered this. I need to gather some more gear before I can give it a shot though. It may be one for the future.

Yes, it helps to provide reassurance as some of the other posts have also done. Thank you for taking the time to provide feedback, I really appreciate it 🙏 

Wouldn’t it be easier just to develop some social skills and a bit of flexibility? 

To be fair, talking to some people is an uphill task because they’re boring and dull. But lots of people are sparky and interesting and are happy to talk, rather than just make small talk. The thing is, getting people to talk about cool stuff looks at first a lot like making small talk. But it ends up in quite a different place. 

One of the more insensitive posts I've seen on here.

“I’m so attached to getting up early that I’d rather go soloing than change my habits,” is quite incredibly inflexible. Yes, it worked for Honnold but it would clearly be much easier just to… accept that potential climbing partners may have slightly different habits and that’s okay and work around them?

It was the bit about social skills I found insensitive. 

Perhaps try quoting the bits you disagree with, maybe? 

Clearly you think that risking death is preferable to learning skills which are perfectly learnable. I checked an autism charity website; they say it’s hard but possible for autistic people, I would take some faith from that and assume it’s possible for most people, even if hard. Almost certainly easier and safer than soloing for the vast majority of people. “I am lacking skills to X, yet I would like to do X” does suggest that learning the skills… could be useful. 
 

I suppose the answer is for some people yes, and it's probably fair to say that my social skills have improved over the years. However on the point of flexibility, I've become less so as my life has increased in age and complexity. I guess very few have it all when they want it, everyone seems to me, to be making the best of what they have at the time.

I don't think I consider myself an interesting person, although I am interested in a variety of topics. Frankly, I could probably put a tiger to sleep with my dull tones.

On the point of developing soloing skills, I find it rewarding to safely ascend routes on my own, and those skills are often transferable to climbing with other people. So one might argue that I'm a more attentive climbing partner with those extra skills, which have nothing to do with sociability.

When you put it like this then yes, I see where you’re coming from. 

I consider myself interesting but I could also chat for a good half hour about fingerboarding so I may be living proof of the advantages of unfounded optimism. Obviously the way to be really, really interesting is to ask the other person lots about themselves, they’ll come away from the interaction with generally a positive impression…

Very true. In addition, spotting dangerous climbers before they can screw you up is a vital skill for anyone looking to expand their circle of partners.

I'm a long-standing member of Wolverhampton Mountaineering Club. Like every other club I've ever known, our members easily cover the full spectrum of social confidence/anxiety. Also like other clubs, we have a regular indoor meet at the local climbing wall where we invite potential new members to come along and meet us. All anyone who's not confident in such situations needs to do is email the New Members Sec, who will meet them first then introduce them to the others. It looks like both Peterborough and Wellingborough Mountaineering Clubs have regular meetings at The Pinnacle. I'd get in touch with whichever comes over as the most new member friendly from their website and/or Facebook page, explain you're a little nervous in such situations initially and go from there. Clubs run on enthusiasm. If you've got that, you'll be welcomed.

Learning something doesn't mean that it feels natural or easy, and learned social skills are often only applicable to specific situations. There is a big difference between learning to have a pleasant interaction with the person behind the counter when you buy your groceries and learning to have a real meaningful conversation with someone.

Learning social skills also doesn't mean that you are always capable of applying them. I teach at a university and I can be social when I need to interact with my students - but after a long day of doing that I can get overwhelmed and be pretty monosyllabic and/or lacking focus in social situations in the evenings. I also find it hard to concentrate on social skills and on something else like climbing at the same time.

This is the human condition, no? Doesn’t everyone feel like this some of the time?

I’ve always found that climbing is a great thing for not having to bother too much about social skills. Who wants to talk when you’re on a route? It’s possible to have a really great climbing partnership with someone without being great mates - free time, aims, abilities all match up and that’s what makes it work. And choosing routes, enjoying the scenery, all that stuff, it’s easy to enjoy that quietly. 

The thing that is difficult is that sometimes there’s a degree of showing vulnerability in climbing. Climbing partners might see us scared or struggling and that isn’t easy. 

Well the post of yours I replied to didn't quote any part of any post, so it came across as generally playing down the difficulty of acquiring social skills. Many people struggle with novel social situations and will certainly do pretty much anything to avoid those horrible room full of people small talk situations; enough to make some of us literally run for the hills. I really don't think these anxieties are at all easily overcome.

Equating soloing to risking death shows little understanding of the mentality involved.

This comment is revealing. The OP isn’t talking about such a small talk situation, is he? He wants to find climbing partners and bemoans his lack of social skills for that particular task. It’s totally different. “Social skills” doesn’t just mean the Durran Cocktail Party Nightmare. 

Many people struggle with all sorts of things. Isn’t facing struggle and overcoming difficulties usually considered a positive thing? 

You talk as if I’ve never soloed - and as if competent soloists have never had accidents. To prefer soloing over trying to connect to other human beings is probably fitting at a certain stage of life; after that I’m really not so sure. 

I was thinking of the situation of somebody going along to a climbing club evening.

Yes, of course. Just don't play down how challenging it can be for some.

People have all sorts of climbing accidents. It is nothing particular to soloing.

I don't see what stage of life has got to do with it. Just as likely older people might decide they can no longer be bothered with the stress of getting to know new people.

It's reassuring to hear so many people respond to this.

I had a regular climbing partnership once; socialising was not an issue and we got loads of climbing done and lots of mutual goals.

Now at a stage of life when climbing opportunitie are months apart, there are plenty of Facebook groups full of people looking for climbing partners for the day, but it seems a bit of a gamble. Not sure I fancy pushing the boat out with a stranger and there is not enough time to go out and build familiarity and trust. The selfish streak says just go on your own, do your own thing and don't let anybody get in the way. This doesn't feel particularly healthy.

Social situations exhaust me; cant stand talking to more than one person at a time. Group and club situations guarantee Ill be heading off on my own at some point. Weirdly, I feel more comfortable around non-climbers. Delicate ego maybe.

I am definitely missing out on my big ticks and dream routes, but have a rewarding tick list of easy routes to do that could last a life time. Guess that's a working solution for now.

I agree entirely about age being irrelevant when it comes to soloing. Being a natural gobshite I don't get particularly stressed about meeting new people, but at nearly 70 I enjoy soloing probably more than I ever did. And what I love about it is the freedom, the exhilaration and the sense of intimate connection with the rock. This may well be because injuries have reduced the level of technical challenge I can enjoy. I can't see in what sense this can be unbefitting someone of my age. Of course I appreciate that it could feel second-best for someone who's soloing because they find the social aspect of roped climbing difficult to navigate, but that's not the case for me and the other (few) elderly soloists I know.

Classic introvert this exhaustion in group situations, where as extroverts are energised by the same situations.  Conversely introverts are energised in solitude or one on one situations where as extroverts are exhausted and sometime lonely.

Exactly! This is not the same as having no social skills, and it’s a real shame to hear people talk themselves down because they prefer one and not the other. 

Is being introverted the same as or does it necessarily go along with social anxiety? I am very happy to speak to room full of any number of people when I have something to say, but any small talk situations fill me with horror. And I'll certainly evade many one to ones especially phone calls.

I'm not sure they necessarily go together, but overcoming social anxiety must surely be more difficult if social situations are mentally draining, to a greater or lesser personal degree. 

I found novel social situations terrifying as a young adult, and still don't much care for them, but gradually became significantly inured by necessity of work

Not necessarily. And it depends what you mean by social anxiety. As you have shared, some people are very sociable one to one in certain situations but not all, and some people are able to speak to a room full of people if it's a subject they're comfortable with. In a climbing context, I love climbing routes as one of a pair, and chatting about big and small stuff before, after and during. But I'm less keen on bouldering as part of a group, no matter how well I know all the individuals there.

And in reply to JaiKane: would it be far fetched to mention Asperger's syndrome here? The characteristics you both mention match ones I have and I am an aspi. Good move posting on here by the way - this can be a supportive place.

For me personally, that's not far fetched. Two of my sister's children have recently been diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum. There is a familial element, and I recognise a lot of the traits mentioned in the children's diagnostic reports, particularly the girl, in myself (and in my Dad too). I've chosen not to investigate further at this time, but it's not a crazy speculation!