UKC

Hello again UKC, back for another round of advice for an overthinking consumer!

Starting to get into sport and I want some draws of my own. The ones I'm looking at from CT come in 12cm and 17cm lengths. I'm thinking of picking up about 12 draws, how would you split this between lengths if it were you?

I had initially thought I'd just get all 17cm as I like the idea of a bit less rope drag for minimal weight gain, however I have been told this may be excessive, and people tend to get mostly 12s with 2-4 longer draws. I could be persuaded to pickup 1-2 22cm if really necessary.

Anyway, how would you load yourself out?

Cheers 🍻

P.s. I have only climbed on Welsh limestone so far, likely to venture into the Peak district and Dales soon enough, any recs for a crag with plenty of 6a-6c ?

12cm is pretty short and whilst some people don't like them much, I like to have a couple on my set. They might very occasionally sit better or be in a fractionally better place to clip or something.

The bulk would be 17cm for me, with a couple of the 22cm ones.

If you're in to redpointing sometimes you'll want to extend a clip more so either a couple of alpine draws, or a couple of slings in your pack might be useful. I don't normally carry these on a route, I'll only take them if there's a particular reason.

As long as the routes are well bolted, 12cm is plenty for almost all clips. I rarely use anything else. Having said that, longer draws aren't a problem either, so a full rack of 17s would be fine too.

About 2/3rds of mine are on 12 cm dogbones, the other 1/3rd on 18 cm ones. Works fine for me. How long they are and 'feel' also depends on the krabs you have. I use full size krabs, mainly DMM Shadows. This makes a quickdraw with a 12 cm sling feel significant bigger than one with little diddy wiregate krabs with a 12 cm slings.

My trad draws are the opposite, about 2/3rds main up of 25 cm slings, alpine draws made of 60 cm slings trippled (so 20 cm approx) and 18 cm slings. 1/3rd on 12 cm slings.

I've 2/3rds 12, 1/3rd 18cm on my sport rack (DMM Shadow).

For trad, nothing shorter than 18cm.

People who use 12cm ‘draws:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5lpdOexasi/?igsh=Z2o2NXBodmVkcWVj
 

Just a joke before anyone gets upset!

I have a mix of 12cm, 17cm and 22cm. Mostly 17. The 22cm are mostly useful for redpoints, especially when you're chaining a few draws on the same bolt. But different lengths are great when the rope end crab isn't hanging freely due to the rock.

And thinking about the safety aspect. Maybe short draws are more likely to invert due to drag and catch on the hanger. Potential for unclipping or strange loading with the gate open.

My usual sport-draw rack has:

2x short

2x long

8x medium (plus 6x more for Euro trips)

Would agree with this kind of setup. I carry pretty much all medium length with a couple of 12cm (for occasions when a bolt just above a ledge or flattie leaves a krab loaded over an edge) and a couple of longer (25-30cm) for any times a bolt is slightly off-line/under a roof etc. I like having a couple of different lengths at the anchor also; if I'm setting up a toprope then it's nice to have them equalised and BBs are often offset. 

I like all my quickdraws as short as possible so that the time I spend relaxed with the clip above my waist is maximised. And why fall further than I have to?

You have now had almost all possible answers to the question, "how long is a piece of string?"

If it was me I’d go for 8x12s and 4x17s, I like to rack the longer ones at the back of each loop I I know where they are if I need them.

I’ve also got a bunch of extra (matching) snapgates and various slings, so if a route looks like it could be really draggy I can make soemthing longer if needs be, but rarely do.

its not a joke! i personally use the small ones for low down where maybe youll fall a tiny bit less, but realistically youre better off using medium and longs once youre a way up there. less drag, stay out the way of the rock on steep 3d routes like tufas, easier to grab, dog , clip, you name it! theres something psychological about having small draws i find, you do feel closer to the bolt if youre scared. this a good reason to stop using them so much! i do try and make the effort....

Like I said, I carry a couple of shorties! I'm certainly not averse to using them but I reckon, like you, the med and long ones are the way forward for the bulk of stuff. I have on a rare occasion used a screw gate instead.

5 / 6cm 'draw length is an irrelevance in a fall the majority of the time.

A Petzl spirit is 6g heavier in it's 17cm form over a 11cm one, so pretty irrelevant even on a long route.

Not a joke at all. That's exactly why I like 12 cm  tapes! 😂

Absolutely 😂 but I guess this is really personal preference, although from reading a variety of sources there seems to be a trend in more medium lengths being favoured

Just by chance or clever snooping algorithms it came up on Insta after posting on this thread 😂

The reality is it doesn't matter that much and if you end up going abroad or doing some longer UK sport routes you'll want to buy a few more anyway. At that point you'll know what you prefer and you can just add some of them.

Sounds like I may be looking at

2-4 short

8-10 med

2 long (when they're in stock)

I definitely hate drag, one of my super light (<40kg) belayers uses an Ohm and it does my f* head in but hey safety right 😂

I like using my least favourite draws low down on a route, to get them out the way!

Don’t want to be fiddling about using my less preferred Black Diamonds when I’m pumped!

There’s nowt wrong with the BDs of course, just prefer the feel of my DMMs

I've done most of my sport climbing recently with an Ohm and can honestly say I can't feel the difference. I do find the extra confidence good though.

I've climbed with a friend who so much preferred his long draws to my short ones that if I led a route first he would then lead it replacing my draws with his as he climbed. I find it hard to believe that the extra effort and weight was worth the supposed reduction in drag.

You don't need lots of longer draws in order to reduce rope drag, just a few for where the rope forms angles. Even on quite wandering routes, there will almost always be sections where the bolt line is more or less straight.

I find that if I pull the rope up too quickly it activates the device

Another one that prefers mid length for the core of my rack.  I have a about 3 short that I rarely use - sometimes where you want to really minimise the fall but tbh I think belaying is significantly more important than a few cms of sling, otherwise mainly to extend draws when repointing!  Also have about 5 long draws which I find particularly useful on bigger 30m+ pitches. The rest (about 15) are 17cm and I happily often set off with just that size on UK pitches. 

As George above said as well as the rope drag advantages I just find mid length draws easier to handle and use in general.

Shock poll:

Asked whether they prefer "short, medium or long" objects, UKC users erred toward medium, on average, though many opined that they wouldn't mind "some of each".

In other news, taken as a whole, the climbing ability of UKC users is "average", and their median height, weight and strength is unexceptional.

Now for the weather, which we can report is more or less in line with long-term trends for this time of year.

Have you got the original or the new model? Finally got to use my new one last night with skinny child 2 belaying me. I also thought it worked well and he had no issues lower me, when it had been harder for him pre-Ohm.

The original. It can be a slow process lowering off and awkward getting it back uninverted after a fall or a hang.