UKC

does anyone do this - does it work?

Whim Hoff is getting a debunking so I'm wondering if icing is worth trying. my fingers are actually quite knarled after 30 years of climbing so it'll have a lot to sort out!

In reply to mutt:

I've used iced water and warm water to alternate between when when my fingers feel stiff or tweaky, they definitely feel more limber afterwards. I have zero science to back this up though. 

In reply to mutt:

RICE is a proven treatment for inflammation and swelling. Rest, ice, compression and elevation.

I have one finger joint that is a bit knackered and gets inflamed now and then. Icing is the easiest thing to do to a finger and it definitely helps, I just put it in ice cubes & water until it starts to hurt, then repeat a couple more times. The results are visible within half an hour. I also use strong ibuprofen gel.

In reply to mutt:

Not sure about WH debunking, the only protecol of his for fingers that I know of is for treating Reynaulds and appears to have been anecdotally successful for a lot of people. It certainly helps for me when I'm disciplined enough to do it. 

RICE has slowly been phased out over the last few years for accute trauma to soft tissue, there are quite a few studies demonstrating it delays healing. There are a number of ridiculous acronyms that have replaced it but basically all to do with promoting blood flow to the area and keeping movement in the joint which complete rest and ice do the opposite of. This is for acute trauma to soft tissue, overuse injuries and long term damage to joints, muscles and tendons may require a different approach. I can't see how ice would help in your situation. 

In reply to pasbury:

Not from what I've read. Haven't been able to find a recent systematic review or randomised controlled trial to cite, however this narrative review from 2020 highlights the lack of evidence. 

https://scholar.google.no/scholar?as_ylo=2020&q=rest+ice+compression+el...

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Ok I stand corrected. Though this was advised to me by GP quite recently. 

Maybe it's specific to fingers; it really helps with mine (just the ice part).

In reply to Mr. Lee:

A nice article! I too have always thought the RICE method to be universally accepted as an effective way of speeding recovery, so its nice to have learned something new.

Couldn't help but pick up on this: "Based on the findings, the authors concluded that “20 minutes of post- exercise active recovery by working the same muscles that were active during the fatiguing exercise is more effective in fatigue reduction than active exercise using those muscles not involved in the fatiguing effort"

In my mind, isn't this just a really long winded way of saying do a proper cool-down (of the muscles used during training) to reduce fatigue and speed recovery?

From which, if one were to implement the learnings from the article and apply it to a climbing related perspective, one should aim to perform a proper post session cool-down to reduce fatigue (with the intention of initially preventing a future injury). Then in the event of an injury development*, perform light recovery activity/ exercises as opposed to the RICE method if an injury begins to develop. I.e. some light training of the injured and surrounding muscles in the following days as opposed to rest and ice etc. that would previously been considered the norm?

*I'm thinking early identification of a mild injury and immediate active recovery here.

In reply to mutt: I thought the article was absolute clickbait... and didn't altogether say what was in the title. Anyway, RICE, then MEAT.

You can try holding your hands under a running tap of water as hot as you can tolerate for 3 mins, then cold as you can tolerate, and alternate. But are you trying to fix short or long term damage?

In reply to wbo2:

meat is out for me but in answer its both but I think really the ship has sailed with regard to old injuries. New aches and pains appear after intense boulder sessions quite often and I'd like to get that healed quicker. The peculiar thing about RICE is that pepole who do it are certain that it helps. But I don't know how they know. 

Also there is cryotherapy to consider too. https://www.cryolabs.co.uk/ cooling the whole body rapidly in a room at -135 degreesC. My friend has done it and he does report long term benefits from a single session. 

Maybe I should do an experiement. I seem to get small injuries pretty much every time I go. maybe one hand gets the RICE and one hand doesn't . Six months down the line see which hand is healed.  Unfortunatley the cryolabs guy suggest that whole body immersion is necessary for a meaningfull effect. perhaps we should just ignore that statement.

In reply to GarethSL:

so what excercise can we do thats active recovery for finger? stress ball squeezing maybe ....

In reply to mutt:

Steady on, this is a family forum

In reply to mutt:

I've always thought in terms of load management and soft tissue stress. That might be in the form of appropriate rest for example to avoid excessive soft tissue stress over time, or avoiding any sudden jumps in load that my fingers aren't adapted to, or load moderation to an injured finger to aid recovery.