UKC

The background :

I've come into some climbing holds and I'm planning on building y traverse wall for my kids (and me) along the wall of our ginnel. The wall is around 10 m long, 6 under cover and 4 in the open, along the side of the kitchen extension.

The tedious questions, that despite extensive (but not exhaustive) trawling of the forum archives, I haven't managed to answer:

Do I bolt straight into the brick? Pros and cons?

If I put on a board with t-nuts all over it, what board should I use? How should I treat it to keep it nice, especially for the outside/unsheltered section?

Thanks, 

GTE

I've found that t-nuts exposed to water degrade pretty quickly. I'm not well-versed in weather proof designs. I made a 45 board with a roof, so it's essentially perma-dry. Being weather proof has been very valuable. A friend did a vertical wall outside and the degradation from the weather is really noticeable.

So pros and cons for both. The drop in anchors are fine if you have good solid bricks and they are flat enough for the footprint of your holds. Or can use the resin fix which are the most bomb proof but require bigger holes and can be a bit messy until you get the hang off it. If you ever wanted to remove the holds them you could just fill the holes. People would likely think you did a really zealous damp proof.

In some ways using boards gives you more options of moving holds around easier and adding screw ons.

But would want really good grade ply, maybe even marine which at the moment would be crazy expensive. But less overall holes going in to your bricks. As mentioned general t-nuts and bolts tend to rust. So would need to pay more for a2 or a4.

Personally I would go with blockwork and ask local climbing centres if they have any old fibreglass volumes that you can add at a later date.

If doing block work don't drill holes in bricks immediately to the side or above your last one.

Useful things to think about, thanks.

Just checked the price of marine ply! That's expensive!

I might chance it with well sealed and painted standard ply instead and hope that the price of marine ply drops in the future....

GTE

Take the hit and buy marine ply or birch if you’re feeling flush and want the best job. anything else will disintegrate in the weather not just in rain! 
 

beeing able to change the traverse route is a must if you’re looking for longevity.

if you can bolt ply straight to the wall that would be an option but I’d personally build a stud wall, bolt this to the house and then screw the ply to the stud wall

OSB might be cheaper than marine ply, but will be more water-resistant than standard ply - you'd probably still want to paint it. You could consider something like a clip-on/roll up cover for the exposed part for inclement weather.

I'd definitely go for board, rather than loads of holes in your bricks - more options for changing stuff around and, if you move house, you can take it with you. Agree with NomadET about the stud wall frame.

Something else to consider is security - would the holds allow intruders easy access onto a roof/upstairs window?

In a ginnel regular ply will be fine. If you are at all concerned you can get a tin of yacht varnish from Wilkos for £10 and that will protect it from getting wet (make sure it's yacth varnish, as this won't be damaged by UV and is more flexible so will handle the timber shrinking or expanding through temperature differences).

I would batten the wall and fix t-nutted ply to it rather than fixing the holds straight into the wall. That way you can add or change things really easily when they get boring (and trust me, they will). Also you'll have a handful of uniform holes to sort when you come to take it down/sell your house rather than a load of random bolt holes with funny-shaped surrounds where the bricks have been discoloured around the shapes of the holds (I've seen ginnels that have obviously previously had climbing holds fixed to the wall in them, and they look weird).   

Another boring point would be to do with whether your house is freehold or leasehold and party-wall agreements (I'm not sure whether the ginnel wall would qualify as a party wall; probably depends on whether you own the space above the ginnel or your neighbour does). 

Have a look at recycled plastic sheets. Weather proof and long lasting.

I just can't advise on sizing or cost sorry

Like this? https://lordsbm.co.uk/ldi00050/

Do you know what these are like for holding T nuts and screws. 

Yes or something like this

https://www.plastock.co.uk/products/100-recycled-plastic-sheet-marbellous?v...

No idea what they'd be like for holding T nuts or screws for screw ons

Do you think being honest with yourself it'll actually see much use? You're looking at between £500-£1200 in timber to line the whole wall depending how you go about it, roughly half of that surface probably won't carry many holds so is wasted money and being a vertical traverse I suspect it's likely to get old pretty quickly even if you can move the holds around.

As a novelty thing the kids might enjoy I'd save the money and drill the bricks for inserts assuming there is enough solid material in each brick to take them. If the bricks are rough/uneven then fit a few mm thick rubber or cork 'washer' behind the hold to even the pressure out. For small foot chips you'll get away with rawlplugs but you'll need to drill carefully (drill and plug one hole, fit the hold, pilot drill the second hole through the hold, remove the hold, finish drill, plug, refit hold finally). Even if you fit a couple of hundred inserts I suspect it'll be an order of magnitude cheaper and significantly quicker (get/borrow a good drill) than boarding and T-nutting the same number of placements. If you keep the brick dust from the drilling and set the anchors a few mm low in the holes you can easily make good later should the novelty wear off.

How wide is the ginnel? For a proper useable wall which is what I'd want for the money involved I'd consider doing the under cover bit only and adding a hinge line, maybe 18" up from the floor so problems can effectively have varied steepness by shifting the route up and down the wall, from kicker to overhanging surface and back.

If you decide to board it I'd skip the expensive plywoods, shuttering ply is void filled shite too so skip that at the cheap end. OSB* or chipboard flooring** are both much better than most give them credit for and cheaper than traditional ply. Get a few good coats of paint on it anywhere that could get wet in rough weather and keep its feet dry, you'll have a good long lasting surface even with cheaper substrates. Even fancy marine ply needs coating to get the full value from it. Whatever you do, keep the weather off it especially the edges and make sure there's ventilation to dry the back of boards if they condense or a storm drives water in.

You'll need less framing than you think you do and than most people recommend, even for a hinged/overhanging board, a bit of flex isn't a problem and it wont snap however (reasonably!) light you build it.

* through foolishness I've had a sheet sat outside unprotected on edge in the weather for a year, it's raised the 'grain' but it's still intact and useable.

** this does bloat and go soft when saturated but can be painted easily

jk

You could probably put threaded inserts (M10 inside, coarse ~16mm thread outside) for woodworking into that rather than T-nuts. It's not cheap though is it.

jk

I think you are over estimating quite how extensive this will be.

I Plan on two rows of holds so there won't be a big wasted area of ply in the middle. Maybe a 40 cm strip along the top - bigger holds at the bottom for the kids, crimpier ones at the top for me. And a 20 cm panel at foot level with little footholds, screw ons. Tbh the kids will probably tread on the top of the panel.

It will cost significantly less than £1200. I'm thinking more like £150-200

GTE

Screw some marine ply to your wall, then just buy screw on holds. Unless you are resetting with the frequency of a good commercial wall, T-Nuts are overkill IMO.

Exterior ply and climbing holds are more expensive than you think.

don't. Climbing walls belong inside. How long are your kids going to be interested in traversing? You're probably looking at a £500-£1000 build not to mention the labour you'll put in. My son enjoyed a system board at 20degrees overhanging when he was 10 yrs old but as soon as it went into the garage he's no longer interested. Think about spending the money on getting them to a proper facility regularly would be my advice.

Shuffling sideways gets dull quickly at the best of times, doing it in such a constrained manner suggests to me you might get more exercise building it than using it. What you describe is doable on your budget in cheaper materials (++ for fixings) but I'd have a think about the value of it.

Just a thought: Ditch the kicker for screw-ons and make the top panel a bit taller and hinged then you can create sideways moves which vary with tilt angle and route setting from slightly cramped vertical shuffling to a proper roof (and everything in between even in your very small space. You suddenly have a half decent cave for very little extra material or work.

Or for half that money you could scattergun the brickwork with inserts and screw-ons allowing you to set varied, if still vertical, problems.

That'd get you 1 sheet of the fancy ply some have been recommending at current prices.

jk