UKC

Like many, I was shocked by the death of Chris the Tall. Part of that shock was that he died snorkeling.

I'd always considered snorkeling to be pretty safe. It doesn't have many of the problems and dangers associated with scuba diving, and having a snorkel and mask allows one to "relax" in situations that would be more serious if "merely" swimming in the sea.

Away from the condolences thread, I'd be interested to know whether there were any circumstances in his untimely death that those who snorkel should keep in mind to reduce any risk.

Can we keep away from speculation, but any informed response that's okay to share would be gratefully received as would lessons from other incidents.

 

In reply to Michael Hood:

Not speculating about the above but in terms of snorkelling and it’s dangers these new face masks whilst making snorkelling easier also seem dangerous to me as you cannot remove from face easily. 

If my snorkel tube fills with water I can easilt remove it and breath normally. A whole face mask might not be so easy. I think they are fine in perfectly calm water where the snorkelled will not dive down but much better to learn with a proper snorkel and mask that allows diving down and pinching of nose to clear ears and I would only recommend the full face for very calm waters and never for diving below the surface

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiI-...

In reply to Michael Hood:

I have no idea what tragic circumstances happened with Chris and naturally won't speculate.   My condolences to his family and friends.

A possible danger with snorkelling is if you choose to dive down whilst breath holding.  The danger here is called shallow water blackout.  It is particularly dangerous because it can strike without warning.  Jay Moriarty succumbed to it and he was famous for big wave surfing where you have to hold your breath for a long time.  It is quite easy to swim down to 15m below the surface with a bit of practice but rapidly ascending becomes the dangerous part.

In reply to Michael Hood:

Life is full of risk even if you just sit at home and watch TV. To me Chris enjoyed a life enhanced by risk without taking huge risks. In terms of comparative ability to reduce risks snorkelling is maybe much less controllable than climbing but looking at this from the perspective of a tragedy is going to make detached analysis difficult.

In reply to Michael Hood:

I have been a scuba diving instructor for over 25 years of wich 18 were spent working full time in many of the classic famous destination around the world, where snorkelling is one of the most common activities on offer. This is what I derived from my personal experience 

For a confident swimmer snorkelling is not a particularly dangerous activity, especially when conditions are good and if you don't venture too far from the beach. However, the sea is an unpredictable environment therefore things can change quite quicly and if you don't have experience you can run into difficulties so even snorkelling must be approached seriously. It is best practiced under supervision or at least with another person. Minimum sensible precautions will also include knowing the area and its characteristics (i.e, tidal currents, dangerous critters, boat traffic, etc..) having a marker buoy to signal your presence and to serve as emergency floating aid if needed (a leg cramp can happen, especially if not used to fin work, than maintaining buoyancy becomes difficult).

While snorkelling people should stick to swimming on the surface and avoid diving as when diving, athough uncommon, the risk of "shallow water black out" exist, as mentioned by Guy. To dive (or more appropriate to freedive) is a different activity from snorkelling and require a minimum of training and knowledge.

 

 

In reply to John Cornish:

I don't like the look of the full face systems - they have been linked to a number of deaths. The suspicion seems to be that the volume is so high that you can't purge all the air in a single breath so it builds up toxic levels of CO2 and then people struggle to get it off to breathe fresh air. I personally wouldn't buy one. A conventional snorkel can be easily spat out.

I'm interested by the concept of shallow water blackout - never heard of that before.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Basically, at depth your lungs compress. 10m underwater is double atmospheric pressure, so your 6 litres of air becomes 3 litres of compressed air. Oxygen is being used and CO2 is being built up. Fine, within the limits of your tolerance to CO2 and your breath hold ability. 

However, if you rush your ascent, that volume expands rapidly and the pressure decreases. You have sensors which monitor the partial pressure of oxygen. As oxygen has been used, there is less of it already at the start of the ascent. A rapid decrease in partial pressure of O2 alerts the sensors and as an attempt to preserve life, they shut the body down. The primary purpose of this mechanism is that it closes the epiglottis, preventing water from entering the lungs. However it also stops air from entering the lungs, and puts the brain on standby (hence blackout). 

Without someone on hand to revive you, the self preservation mechanism is somewhat limited. 

Shallow water blackout isn't limited to rushed ascents, it can happen on a slower ascent but where the partial pressure of O2 is still low, perhaps after a long or stressful dive.

I have succumbed to it once, in 2009 after an attempt at a personal depth record in no-fins freediving. Lots of stuff went wrong on that dive, I won't go into detail but basically there was overexertion and stress and I blacked out 7 metres from the surface whilst returning from 31 metres. 

My dive buddy who had swam down to meet me at 9m or 10m got me to the surface safely, where I was unconscious for 25 seconds whilst another buddy revived by first blowing on cheeks and tapping cheeks, and ultimately giving me a few mouth-to-mouth "rescue breaths". 

Without those buddies/safety divers, I'd would probably have died even though I would have floated to the surface, because a blackout of that severity doesn't generally have a "wake up" function

I am only relating an incident I personally experienced here, to explain Shallow Water Blackout. 

I am in no way speculating on circumstances around the tragedy that prompted this thread. 

 

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I have used one of the full face ones, and although not as easy as removing an ordinary snorkel mouth piece, it seems like it would be easy enough to remove the whole thing quite quickly in an emergency. 

Getting caught in rips or bashed against cliffs by swells would be a bigger risk I would think. It is surprising how quickly conditions can change over a short time, or by swimming from a sheltered bay to an exposed headland.

Boats are another considerable hazard.

In reply to mountain.martin:

Yeah, boat was my first thought. I have had more close calls with boats and kite surfers than I care to remember- swimming, kayaking and diving.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Interesting post.

 

In reply to Michael Hood:

It's easy to lose track of where you are when snorkelling and end up in a 'getting bashed against a rock' or 'getting run over' situation. It would be interesting to know whether it was something directly attributable to snorkelling, or something like a heart attack or fit that just happened to happen whilst he was doing the activity.

In reply to wildebeeste:

Yep boats & jetski's are big dangers and so are windsurfers & kiteboarders.  Boats and Jetski's you can generally hear coming in the water and take avoiding action, but windsurfers and kiteboards not so much so. 

Fins from windsurfers and the sharp edges of a kiteboard could easily cause major trauma.  Hydrofoil kiteboards, well I shudder to think!  Sometimes when out kitesurfing it's hard to spot a brightly coloured lost kite board out in the water so the top of a snorkel would be almost impossible to see.

Best solution when snorkeling is to not snorkel anywhere near where these activities are taking place, or if there are boats/surfers out then stay close in among the rocks/reef for protection and don't stray too far out in open water.  Also consider taking a brightly coloured inflatable buoy to tow behind you if there are likely to be water craft nearby - will provide much greater visibility.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I'd never heard of that before either, and have snorkeled since being a kid, mind you not to those sort of depths, I suppose the deepest I ever went would have been around 10-15m.

Interesting stuff, cheers.

In reply to Northern Star:

Another risk that I have seen snorkelers totally oblivious to is DWS falls. This is common with scuba divers just under the surface.

I've seen some heroic lock offs take place whilst someone swam under at lulworth cove.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Interesting message, thanks.

 

What does the blowing/tapping on cheeks do? I suppose it promotes some sort of response from the body - is it just letting it know that it has air to breathe again? Any idea what the mechanism is? Thanks.

 

 

In reply to Michael Hood:

I was snorkelling with my ex a few years ago in Mauritius. Now she is a much stronger swimmer than me. We were exploring the reef and in the lagoon the water was calm, but when we swam over the reef to the ocean side the sea was much rougher and the swell kept pushing us towards the reef. One second it was 5 ft under you, the next just 5 inches. 

Also the waves were breaking against it. It was evident that we had swum into a nasty situation and we immediately started swimming back over it towards calmer water. Suddenly she grabbed me and I could see that her eyes were wild and frightened. A wave had broken over the snorkel and she had breathed in a tube full of water. I had never seen her react like this before. She was panicking. I got her back to the calmer water and took off her mask so that she could breath fresh air whilst I supported her head out of the water, whilst she coughed and choked. Even then it took several minutes to calm her, before I could swim with her back to the beach. All the time she was holding me in a vice like grip.

She told me afterwards that it had really scared her and she had thought she was going to drown. Something like this had never happened to her before and being a strong swimmer her reaction had caught her by surprise and frightened her. It frightened me too, as at one stage I thought she was drowning. She hasn't snorkelled since although she still swims regularly.

It was a very frightening experience, and I still shudder when I think what could have happened, if I hadn't been with her.

 

In reply to NottsRich:

Afraid I don’t know the exact mechanism. Either our face in the cheek area is sensitive or it’s just usually the only exposed skin (Freediver in wetsuit with hood)

In reply to Brown:

A kayaker underneath me at lulworth almost gained an unexpected crew mate in 2007 when I was half way across stair hole!

In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

At least they can hear you scream!

In reply to Michael Hood:

I had a very near miss snorkelling in the red sea...dived down to look at summat...I was very close to the coral reef "cliff". As I prepared to reascend, I kicked off from the sea bed, head facing towards the cliff. I hadn't realised that at the precise point on the "cliff" where I was reascending there was a slight overhang. I missed it by a whisker by pure chance because it hadn't occurred to me I might be so close to the rocks. I'm pretty sure that if I'd caught it, I'd have been in deep trouble. I must say that after reading about Chris's tragic death, I've been reflecting upon my near miss quite frequently.

 

In reply to Michael Hood:

We had a lad from our dive club who had shallow water black-out whilst snorkelling in Sharm-el-Sheikh. Not particularly deep or any kind of free-diving thing, just ducking down and swimming around for as long as he could. Fortunately, he had someone with him who was able to get him back to the surface. Not sure if they actually performed rescue breaths or just getting his head out allowed him to come around. He was in hospital for a couple of days with secondary drowning. 

Not part of our club, but a girl at university, was killed in Antarctica in 2003 whilst snorkelling with a leopard seal. It dragged her below the surface. She was recovered very quickly with a rescue boat but sadly didn't survive. 

In reply to sbc23:

As I mentioned before and as proven by the near misses described above, snorkelers should stick to the surface and stay in safe areas near the beach, with a partner. Anything more than that is obviously more fun (and tempting) but it does require some preparation to be done safely. 

to use a UKC relevant analogy, underestimating the ocean is as dangerous as underestimating the mountains. You wouldn't venture too far off the beaten track on a mountain environment without preparation and experience or adequate supervision. Snorkelling is a wonderful way of discovering the underwater environment but equally challenging; if interested, investing a bit of time and money in it pays dividends.